Windhunter, Any users???

Would like feedback on this wind steering system from anyone who knows of it. I am aware of their web site but cannot seem to finf anyone who knows the system. Will be in UK from Canada at exmas and hope to see one installed somewhere. Denis S/V Tayana

There is a very good looking McGruer near my mooring who fitted one earlier this year. I spoke to him at the time and he had nothing but praise for the company and the ease of installation. I saw him later in the season and he thought it was wonderful. "The future of cruising"

Denis

I have no practical experience with the WIndhunter but being in the process of evaluating "Auto Pilot" systems of all flavours I have looked at how it works.

In essence it is an inboard autopilot system powered by a towed water generator, without some of the features that a top line inboard autopilot system will give you.

I have decided that I will go for a Simrad / Robertson Autopilot system but probably using the Navico LA2 Actuator and keep the batteries charged using a towed generator. (I reserve the right to change my mind on some of these details after the London Boat Show:-})

Hope this helps

Tony Day

If anybody out there does have a Windhunter installed and would be prepared to let us at YM come and try it out, please get in touch. We have been in touch with the maker more than once to try to get a trial sail but no luck.

Sorry Peter, but we must refresh your memory. Some 18 months ago you wrote a review of all windvanes. You completely omitted to mention WINDHUNTER.

You overlooked researching your subject and failed to notice adverts going back to 1992 in the classified adverts in your own magazine. When we spoke to you to draw your attention to your oversight you said that you had never heard of the hydraulic windvane that steeres the boat and charges the batteries until a after you wrote the article. You were also invited to sail WINDHUNTER on that occasion. You must remember the telephone conversation, for you subsequently wrote a letter to one or your readers implying that you were surprised that we "sounded very aggrieved at being omitted" quote unquote. We have not heard from you since.Sorry about this, Peter, its a bit embarassing, but we had to respond to your statement. R. Zelinsky. Windhunter Europe.

I bought a windhunter in 1995 and it is a modern version of the traditional windvane self steering except that it charges the batteries as well as steer the boat. Our last boat had a Sailomat with which we were pleased but went for the Windhunter this time because of the battery charging and its very compact. Its performance in light airs is probably better. Last year we upgraded it to fit the autopilot module which gives us the same functions as our ageing Autohelm 7000 - steering to GPS, chart plotter and so on. Everyone we meet wonders what it is as it does three things windvane generator and autopilot. We have our name on the waiting list for the water powered watermaker module and when this is plugged into it do doubt the dockside bystanders will be really confused ! No, it is a windvane self steering because the core module has no electronics or electric motors and is simple to understand. Its a bit like the space station - you can add more modules if you want it to do more things. We have done about 12,000 miles with it and so far it has lived up to our expectations. One comment though, we originally had the small generator but subsequently upgraded to a 12 amp which I would recommend if you want to have proper fridge or small deep freeze on passage without running the engine for battery charging. Fair winds

Thanks for the reply.however I do want an independent wind steering system. My # 1 choice so far is Capehorn, Perhaps you'l get lucky and it will be at the London Boat Show. One look at it's simplicity and you'll have to rethink it all. Denis

John

Your statement "it is a windvane self steering because the core module has no electronics or electric motors and is simple to understand" is I feel a little misleading.

Most people would consider a windvane self steering system to consist essentially of nothing more than a Vane connected mechanically to a servo rudder which connects to the main steering rudder via "bits of string", nothing hi tech no electrics and completely functionaly self contained.

That is not true of the Windhunter system, the core wind sensor may well be purely a mechanical device but it won't actually move the rudder without the support of other (Hi Tech in the eyes of some)electro hydraulic devices.

Conclusions:- 1.The Windhunter system is not a Windvane Steering device as most people understand them. 2. The Windhunter system is little different to a conventional inboard Hydraulic Autopilot System powered by a towed generator such as an Aquair. 3. Based upon actual users of the system that have responded to this forum the Windhunter would appear to be a good system.

I personaly would welcome the opportunity to examine one at close quarters as some of the engineering aspects interest me, just hope that they will be at Earls Court.

Ate Tony Day

We are the owners of the McGruer referred to in Laurence's message. Laurence is right we are very pleased with the performance of the Windhunter so far. We would be pleased to show it to YM next season when our boat returns to the water. We agree with what John Harman says about the product. In particular, its compactness. Our transom is very small and we were not keen on having a construction site on the aft end which is what seems to be required for old type wind vane systems. There are also no tiresome gears or cables (ie.string). Our boat is quite big and heavy (over 16 meters and over 20 tons). After making inquiries we had severe doubts whether the old type systems would cope. Windhunter has worked extremely well in varying conditions.

We don't think that it is right to equate Windhunter with an inboard autopilot. One very big difference is that there is no electric motor. This for us is the biggest disadvantage with such inboard systems and also our experience that when the going gets tough the inboard systems pack up. Windhunter is a wind vane steering system - when the wind vanes tilt the boat turns.

One problem that we thought that we would have but so far have not is catching lobster pots on the towed turbine. Quite weird - it has not happened once yet. We take along a spare turbine just in case.

Denis - you say you want an independent wind steering system - it is independent - when the boat's own steering pack's up you can still steer the boat and you get loads of battery power and cold beer too.

Finally, a word about the manufacturer/inventor. He is an eccentric Irish boffin - Don't be put off when you first talk to him - he sometimes sounds like he's not interested in selling his product. That was certainly our first experience. But we persevered and came to realise that he is really more interested in inventing than selling which accounts for his rather refreshing way of doing business. By the way we got great back up when we installed the system

lexa and steve

Lexa and Steve, Thanks for the reply, first one from a using owner of the Windhunter. By emergency steering, I meant loss of the rudder, which the windhunter needs to steer.

By the Way, being Canadian, what's a Boffin Denis S/V Tayana

The Concise Oxford Dictionary states that a "Boffin" is "Man engaged in research, scientist" - origin unknown! Hope this is some help.

Heatha. (Almost a scientist - a mathematician.)

P.S. We are also interested in this system. We have a catamaran with a hydraulic steering system and think it would work for us.

lexa and steve

No electric motor? then why does the system need a towed generator or turbine if you prefer, what gives you the hydraulic power that the system uses to move the rudder? well lets quote from the manufactures blurb:-

"Steer to GPS-Waypoint, NMEA interfacing available. Constant-Running hydraulic pump. Only the most expensive, top-of-the-range autopilots have Constant Running power units." (http://www.windhunter.com/features.htm for those interested )

which is driven by guess what? an electric motor.

In fact even windhunter tacitly support the contention that it's rudder actuator technology is the same as an inboard autopilot most of which use hydraulic actuators driven by an electrical pump.

Ate Tony Day

Sorry Tony, but you are wrong. There is no electric motor on our boat which powers the hydraulic pump - it is directly water powered.

lexa and steve

The vane gear yarn actually appeared nearly five years ago & I was confident at the time I'd got every gear on the market. No one else in the office had heard of it either. I still remember the outraged letters from Windhunter owners! Perhaps you don't remember one of my colleagues talking to you at Earl's court a few years back & also offering to come for a sail. Anyway, enough of this. We're prepared to be persuaded, converted or whatever it takes. If you can point us towards a boat fitted with a Windhunter we'll definitely come and try it out.

I believe its origin is WWII RAF slang for the scientists who were developing the then new electronic devices such as radar, IFF, HFDF etc. George

hello denis,

Just an off the wall question, Are you the same Denis that ownes the Tayana 37 "Tayana"? Is so then. Great web site, love the book and keep up the good work.

regards

Simes

Hi Tony,

I tend to agree with you. The Windhunter has an electric motor. However WINDHUNTER dissagree with me. I have had part of one of my earlier postings in this thread copied on to Windhunter in the USA and they have responded "Dear Mr. Simes,

Someone has forwarded your memo dated Dec 8 on self-steering to me.

I would like to clarify your understanding of Windhunter.

The basic Windhunter is a hydraulic windvane. It has no other functions. It requires no holes in the hull, or lines to the wheel/tiller. It leaves the transom completely free, and is competitive price-wise with a mechanical windvane. It does not have any electric motor; a turbine is towed behind the vessel, and this produces HYDRAULIC PRESSURE (not electricity) which is used to steer the vessel.

We also offer hybrid units. By adding on additional modules, you can increase the functions of your Windhunter hydraulic windvane. These are: water generator (3 different sizes), wind generator, steer-to-compass function, full autopilot/NMEA interfacing function, and Power Leg instead of towed turbine. Please note that the purpose of the optional generators is to charge the ship's battery, not provide power for Windhunter's steering function. We would not rely on an electric motor for our steering.

If you would like to receive an Info pack, please let us know your address.

Yours sincerely, Sackville Currie Windhunter USA"

Interesting eh?

I am still not sure about this. I want a windvane for its simplicity, elagance and reliability. This system does not sound simple, elegant and with so many sealed systems if it is not reliable how can I fix it?

Yours, Not sure in Burnham

Simes

Dear Mr. Simes, We note that our Miami office has advised you of the details of WINDHUNTER windvane steering already and they have stated that there is no electric motor driving the hydraulic pump, it is water driven. Please allow us here in the UK to add that there are no mechanical moving parts inside the windvane either, accordingly it cannot be simpler. The heart of it is a lhydraulic logic block which is not a sealed system, and as already stated, has no mechanical works inside. As it happens, "elegant" was the word used to describe it by Blue Water Sailing magazine a few months back. We thank you for observing that it is interesting. Windhunter Europe

We launched our new boat in 1991 and between 92 & 96 completed a circumnavigation. Just about everything aboard broke about 4 times except the autopilot 6 times from memory and the windhunter once. I mistakenly put in oil (seemed like sawdust when I stripped it down) from wrong tin. The vanes move a rod that goes into a metal cube which is a honeycombe of holes and these had to be cleaned out. I could not figure out how it works, but there are no moving parts inside. A simple job to strip but an oily one. That was about 4 days out of Sydney in 94 and has given no trouble since. We think its excellent. We came across this site and see discussion on the electric pump motor - it dosent have one. For sure.

Interesting to note that YM has had trouble trying to identify a boat on which they can try a Windhunter. I have tried to get the makers to let me know of suitable boats for me to check it out on in Australia, or for my brother (yachtmaster ocean ticket) to test in UK. No luck. The company have generally been quite unhelpful. Makes you wonder don't it.

Hi Simes ,Steve and Lexa

I stand corrected, I now understand that the basic Windhunter uses a towed Hydraulic Pump NOT a towed electrical generator, which is an add on option.

I am not convinced though that this is a better solution than using a towed electrical generator to provide power for a "normal" electical hydraulic pump.

I will leave the argument there for the moment, though if anybody is interested I will expoound on why I am not convinced that it is the best solution.

Ate Tony Day

I am curious why you feel adding another link in the chain improves the system. As an engineering student I was taught that the fewer the components in a system the higher the reliability.

Hello George

Yes I can't refute that statement. However changing one component the towed Hydraulic pump for a towed electrical generator and adding one other item an electically driven pump produces a far more flexible autopilot / steering system.

On shorter passages the steering system would be usable without deploying the towed generator (pump driven from batteries) while on longer passages the towed generator will provide a surplus amount of electricity over that required for the steering system for charging batteries etc always useful, even essential on a cruising boat.

Ate Tony D

So in conclusion yes I agree in theory you will get reduced reliability with the addition of an additional component but I feel in a good installation using a good quality electo/pump the increase in unreliability would be small and worth risking for the overall system improvements.

[bendyone]

I wonder if its still made?

[ChrisE]

I wonder if its still made?

As far as I recall they went pop about 15 years ago.

I bought one and found out the hard way that good intentions and good engineering do not necessarily create a workable windvane.

Now use a Monitor which does work.

Chris