Engine HELP!!! Chichester

[NorthernWave]

We have sold up to disappear off into the sunset in our boat, a Birchwood TS37 Supersports. With the intention of getting married on board down in the Med.
Problem!!!!
2 weeks after buying the boat the bottom end went (so the engineer says) on one of the BMW D6's.
I am on a seriously tight budget so have started on the engine myself. I have restored a few Minis in the past which required engine rebuilds but this is the first Diesel and marine engine.
Are there any people out there in the Chichester area who would be prepared to give advice when needed and maybe even a watchful eye to check I am doing things the way I should????????

Many Thanks

Chris



Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[mainshiptom]

I think yoiu are doing the right thing, since you are doing it yourself you know you are doing things proparly !

I would only suggest to take pictures (polaroid if poss ) before you start it is always useful to see how things were fitted.

I changed an engine on my previous coronet 32 and it was very useful to hve done it myself beacause once at sea I knew where evrything is and how things should be.


Carry on not only you are saving yourselves some money you are also learning about your boat.

Having said all that I am suprised that the bottom end is gone ?? What does that mean?

Boat engines are normmally big engines that can take all ot but are very under utilised ie they might get faults because there are not used rather then being over used ie wear !!

Tom

[NorthernWave]

Funny you should say that!!! I have always suspected that the bottom end was fine and thought maybe a piston. Later after alot of thought I was questioning the turbo.
I have stripped down the Heat exchanger and now turbo, and alas the turbo is shot!!! (sigh of relief!!)
I am a bit concerned about metal from the turbo getting into the engine!!

I took photos when I restored my Mini and yes it is very handy, but this time a have another engine the same sitting next to that one to compare so I haven't this time.

Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[summerwind]

Big end failure is usually caused by lack of oil pressure. I hope I am not trying to teach granny to suck eggs, but the objective of the oil pressure is to keep the big end bearing from actually touching the crank shaft. If they do touch, then the bearing becomes worn and will start to knock. This will cause damage to the crankshaft which will need to be re-ground (If damage is not too bad.) This becomes rapidly worse because the worn bearing will lower resistance to oil flow, so causing a further drop in oil pressure.

How do you know the big end is shot?

You may well be right that metal from the turbo has got into a cylinder and is banging about. Fairly serious this as it will damage piston, valves, head and block.

If you haven't got one allready, get a workshop manual for your engine. It will contain the torque presures you need when reassembling as well as give you oads of other useful information. Torque pressures are very important if you don't want to be doing the job all over again in three months time.

[NorthernWave]

Your very right. This is why I thought the engineer was talking from his nether.
Although give him his dues, I guess there is a chance that if metal has got into the oil it might have knocked out the big ends.
Lastest up date however is that the turbo is shot and that it was a foreign body of metal which P H Marine have said they think might be from the exhaust (as they rot). So a rebuilt turbo (£150) and tonight I will check out the exhaust. I hope it's that and not a piston ring??????

Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[summerwind]

Whilst piston rings do break, its very unusual for the broken bits to get into the combustion chamber.

From the information we have so far I would still bet on something from the turbo being blown into the engine.

The remarks regarding the exhaust system are a bit confusing. The exhaust side of the turbo is completely separate from the inlet side. The thing wouldn't work if it wasn't.

I still feel you should have the head off.

Good luck.

[NorthernWave]

Inclined to agree I think I will have the head off as the exhaust manifold seems fine anyway. I'm wondering if its a valve?
Won't be working on the old girl until the weekend but will keep you updated.

Cheers

Chris

Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[mtb]

Get a big screwdriver put the thin end against the engine, then put your ear to the other end , you can soon source noise , and compare it to the other engine.
Is your oil pressure ok , from cold does the engine rattle and then once oil pressure is attained runs quietely.
Whats your oil pressure when hot compared to the other engine.
Do a compression check first, to asertain which if any cylinders are down on compression.
You may be able to crack the injecters to try and locate which cylinder makes no difference when not firing. Re this remember the pressure of injected fuel is enough to inject under your skin and give you blood poisoning so place a rag over the connetor when undone to catch the spray
I'd be surprised if debri went back against the exhaust flow and ended up in the combustion chamber , think about it !!!!!.
If for example you compression check it and a cylinder is down , squirt oil into the cylinder and re do the compression check, if there's no difference you can say it's top end re valves or head / gasket, if the compression goes up then you know it's rings / piston .
Dont take the head off with out going through the process of fault finding cos you may well be wasting more money. In other words dont spend money to find the fault , find the fault first.
Cheers
Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a big steel ex trawler or tug v, cheap or swap for tug

[NorthernWave]

Too Late!!!
Already taken the heads (yes there are six heads!!) off and when I got head number 3 off the valve fell out!! AND WHAT A MESS IT IS TOO!!!
The valve has snapped at the stem so the big round bit was rattling around in the cylinder. It has damaged the piston a bit but I wonder if its worth replacing???? The head is shot to bits so I'm going to call PH marine and try and get a new one. Thank God it has six seperate heads!! (whos betting I have to buy a set of six???)

Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[summerwind]

Glad to hear that you have found the problem, even though it is not necessarily the best news you could have had.

You need to have a good look at the piston head. Pistons are usually relatively soft, so it may be ok as long as it doesn't have a hole in it.

Have a very, very good look at the bore. Damage which could eventually cause blow-by when you have fitted the new head will bring a lot more work. You might be able to get away with honing the bore - you might get away with doing nothing.

[NorthernWave]

The bore seems OK, there is a few scratches at the very top of the bore but I think I could get away with them as they are not very deep and probably don't even get near the rings. The piston does look a bit of a mess but I see no holes and it's no moving around in the bore at all.

Chris

Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[mtb]

to risky especially on a long run off the coast , I place a high probability that small end damage if not evident now soon will be .
Also the damaged piston will now have compound fractures .
Change it I say , re the valve guide check its not damaged or the new valve wont last long .
Better then bottom end though !!
Cheers
Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a big steel ex trawler or tug v, cheap or swap for tug

[summerwind]

Agree with mtb.

Think you should change the piston and, as you will have to fit a new head, take the opportunity to fit new valve guide(s).

Good luck.

[NorthernWave]

I have taken your advice and gone for a new piston, only £60 for peace of mind. Re-conditioned head inc valves etc £300, Turbo rebuilt and recon'd £250
Bits and bobs £350.
Still doesn't add up to my cheapest quote of £5000

I hope I don't find any more problems!!!



Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[summerwind]

Glad to hear you are feeling much better now ;-)

[mtb]

How can they quote for stupid money like that !!!.
When I used to make a living ( that should be try to make a living) as a mobile mechanic which included marine engineering as well , I found it impossible to make a decent living .People seemed to want to pay three times the price to a yard who's staff were both under qualified and underpaid (imho) and get a poor job done !!.

So now you have been through your engine and know which tool's to have at hand to fix most problems at sea .It's not done much these days but years ago if a cylinder went down the piston / conrod would be taken out so they could get back in on the rest of the engine.

Well done
Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a big steel ex trawler or tug v, cheap or swap for tug

[Viking]

Hi
Might be a bit late
But the local 'night school' in the Chic' area does a great marina engine course. That is if you get your engine out you can rebuild it on the course. One of our 'older' lady club members rebuilt hers.

[NorthernWave]

I've done alot of the work now, it was a broken valve that damaged the head and piston, also sent debris into the turbo.
Ordered parts and starting to rebuild next week. EXCITED NOW!!!

Chris

Thanks to all for advice

P.S. Looking to do my Motor Boat Skippers at the UKSA, anyone got £8000?? :o)



Relaxation starts at the pontoon gate

[NorthernWave]

Still waiting for parts??????? Should arrive tomorrow WOOHOO!!!

Buy my Fletcher please!!!!!

[mtb]

you8r aving a laugh aint ya ****in ell how long has it been !!!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I need a couple of oak tree's .. for me trawler

[NorthernWave]

Parts have finally arrived!!!!! SO LATE!!!

Start rebuilding tonight, hoping to get away for christmas so lets hope all goes well. 1st diesel I've ever built so might take some time, not sure about bleeding etc.

Chris

First winter as an inny..... I've dropped a valve!!! So frustrated, want to hit the water NOW!!!!

[Sunny_Jim]

If you are not already sorted - try Brian Strickland - Harbour Engineering, Blue Gates, Shipton Green Chichester PO20 7BZ Tel: 01243 513454

He is a first rate engineer and is competitive priced. Tell him "DAWN BIRD" recomended you!

If you have electrical problems John Floyd - Bognor Regis, 01243 823 136 is your man.

It is most desireable to get any problems sorted before you leave UK as the quality of local service in the Med is variable unless you get lucky.

Good luck

[mtb]

Once you have got it rebuilt , remembering to give all the parts a dose of clean engine oil. Make sure it wont start and spin it over to allow the oil pressure to build up. Then as you'll see working from the tank there will be or should be an agglomerater / water large particle separator, then lift pump and filter then finally main injector pump. The aim is to get clear fuel with out air bubbles coming out .
So check to see if your lift pump has a manual arm under the main body , Crack the bleed screw on the top of your filter start pumping ( if it does not seem to pump much turn the engine to get a longer stroke ) it can take ages to get the diesel through !! I use a rag to save my fingers from blisters.
Once your happy the diesel is free from air at that point tighten the screw. Next look for the bleed screw on the main injector pump undo it and pump again .
Once that's done crack a couple of injector nuts . Now before starting go through your check list !!!!!!!!!!
oil ..... ok
Water ...OK
all electrics reconnected
all hoses back on and clips tight
all tools clear , now pause and think again !!
better to be safe than sorry
Turn it over as soon as it fires tighten the injector nuts WARNING remember the fuel at this point is around 15 bar so will inject under your skin ... don't let your hands any where near the fuel being injected as you tighten the nuts.
BBBRRRROOOOOMMM job done .

You may have the later type fuel system self bleeding GREAT you just need good batteries but still go through your check list
Once running allow to warm up checking over the area's you have worked on for leaks or other problems.
Need I say more
cheers
Mick

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[NorthernWave]

Thanks for the Help, Got her running on Boxing day and she is running pretty well. I am just about due to do the retoque (10 hours) and will spend alot of time on valve clearance as I feel that this is very important. She smokes a little on start up but that clears fairly quickly. Power delivery seems smooth and there is no smoke, however we get a little steam (as we did before rebuild), I thought that might be head or head gasget but I've checked the head and changed all gasgets???

Generally very pleased with the results and feel that it was very worth while doing the work myself. I have learnt alot and feel I should no longer need an engineer for anything other than advice.
Thanks all for advice etc

Chris

FIXED IT!!! So good being an inny!!!

[mtb]

steam or condensation !!
steam would mean pressure built up due to boiling water and I cant see it being that , that is, unless you had and still have a cracked head ???.You did check the head didn't you ?

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ha ha ha
got you going didn't it !! just for a second :-].
I think it will be condensation so don't fret , keep an eye on the inside of the rocker cover if you start getting a build up of emulsified oil consider changing the thermostat.
The rocker adjustment don't worry to much because unless you use a dial gauge to get it precise !! feeler gauges get it close enough.

Cheers
Mick

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[mainshiptom]

Well Done , When are you setting off ?

Tom