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angel
22-09-07, 23:41
We are new to this forum and are seeking plenty of advice We are looking to give up the bricks and mortar life and live aboard We have some experience of boating mostly on non tidal rivers Can anyone comment on the cost involved and any problems that we may encounter

Richard10002
23-09-07, 00:27
Whatever you end up doing, hindsight will tell you that you should have done some things differently.

I wish I had bought a boat with, (or budgeted for):

watermaker
generator
solar panels
wind generator
battery management system (sterling, Adverc, driftgate 2000)

in order to be more self sufficient at anchor or on a mooring.

Davits and a gantry would also have been handy, as would a bigger/fatter dinghy with a more powerful engine, (existing is XM2.3 with Honda 2.3hp).

Costs depend on size and type of boat - Even though I couldnt afford new, I went to a few boat shows and decided i couldnt live on less than about 42ft, and didnt want to handle more than 45ft.... A Moody 44 will cost somewhere around £115K to £130K.

Problems? Things will go wrong and you will have to fix them. It will all cost more than you expect.

But it is the most incredible experience, and I have to keep pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming!

Do you plan to cruise around, or settle in one place. marina based or anchor and moorings, or a mixture.

These blogs, (amongst others), have helped me:

http://www.hitrapia.co.uk/intro.htm#

http://www.zialater.com/index.htm

http://www.morganscloud.com/techniques_tips/techniques.htm

here are the experiences of Jonny and Kate buying a boat and preparing to liveaboard, (only found this the other day, courtesy of Jonny)

http://www.freewebs.com/jksailing/journal.htm

the people on this forum are an incredible mine of helpful information, advice and social interaction.

Give us a bit more info regarding your budget and plans and maybe responses can get a bit more specific.

Cheers

Richard

mandlmaunder
23-09-07, 03:43
The sooner you start the happier you will be .
Give some sort of your expectations and we( the mighty formites ) will disallusion as quick as possible.
We live on our 36ft solaris sunstar cat and are having the time of our lives.
What sort of-
boat
location
time scale
itinerary
part of the world-start , stop
reasonable budget(4,000 up per year and up)
general skill level (handling-maintenance)
?>?>?
give us a clue and help will come forth
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PlanB
23-09-07, 10:22
Where are you planning to live? Static, cruising, UK, abroad?
Motor or sail? It would be helpful to know as we've all got lots of different experiences to offer. Mine is motor from the UK to the Med, for example.

jeanne
23-09-07, 17:10
I“m not sure that this talk of 100 grand boats and the need for watermakers is what you want to hear. We went sailing for two years, to Brasil and back,in a 20 grand boat, with no fancy kit, and that includes chartplotters, watermakers, fridge, Rib, radar, and instruments, except for a Walker trailing log.
If you want advice, you have to give the helpful people on the site a bit of a starting point, some idea of your budget, your hopes and ambitions, the size of your prospective crew, and whether this an open ended cruise, a year or two off, or a retirement plan. A hint or two on how far up the scale you are on the “watermakers are essential“question would be good, too.

Richard10002
23-09-07, 18:16
[ QUOTE ]
I“m not sure that this talk of 100 grand boats and the need for watermakers is what you want to hear. We went sailing for two years, to Brasil and back,in a 20 grand boat, with no fancy kit, and that includes chartplotters, watermakers, fridge, Rib, radar, and instruments, except for a Walker trailing log.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeanne,

I was merely trying to make the point that they wont get it dead right first time, and that there will be things they find they wish they had done. I listed my "wish list" as an example, but also as things that I would definitely have built in for a comfortable self sufficient cruising lifestyle.

I also talked about my decision making process and expenditure, as that is all that I know.

It turns out that they are looking for a mobo, and their budget is £150K - £200K, so talk of £120K wasnt even close, and advice from yachties like us isnt necessarily all relevant.

As you say, more info would have pointed us in a better direction.

Richard

MentalPause
23-09-07, 20:48
[ QUOTE ]
It turns out that they are looking for a mobo, and their budget is £150K - £200K

[/ QUOTE ]

So they want 2 watermakers then (1 spare) and a big generator. No wind genny or solar panels though. Sorted. These forums are great eh?

jeanne
23-09-07, 21:35
Once more, proof , if proof is needed, that I am the one out of step with the rest of the world.

LadyJessie
23-09-07, 21:54
The best introduction to the issues involved in deciding on a liveaboard life is buying the book "Sell up and sail" by Bill and Laurel Cooper. They just happen to have made a posting here on this forum recently. Their book is still the ultimate reference book on how to get started in the liveaboard world. I can personally attest that most of their recommendations are spot on.

Then we are all ready here for your follow up questions.

Richard10002
23-09-07, 21:59
[ QUOTE ]
Once more, proof , if proof is needed, that I am the one out of step with the rest of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. We all do what we do, and if it suits us and we like it, it's great.

You are in step with quite a few people I have met/seen on my way across the Med.....

French chap, Ronald, in Porto Andratx, on a tiny boat... very happy doing what he was doing.

I met a couple in Taormina on a Westerly Centaur, (26ft??), who were on their way back to the UK after 5 years away. They said that that could have afforded a much bigger boat, but they were happy to do the trip in Genesis.

There are lots of people who do this on little money in smaller boats, and lots who do it on lots of money in bigger boats - each to his own, live and let live, and so on.

Whichever step you are on/in, it beats a day at the office!!!

ozcruiser
23-09-07, 22:09
You are the one talking sense. The 100K plus crowd find that they have so many "essential" items on their wish list, that they have found themselves dependent on all the stuff that they supposedly sailed to get away from. They are wanabee sailors and liveaboards and are insecure if they dont have all the trappings of the life they are pretending to escape from.

MentalPause
23-09-07, 22:25
[ QUOTE ]
The 100K plus crowd find that they have so many "essential" items on their wish list, that they have found themselves dependent on all the stuff that they supposedly sailed to get away from. They are wanabee sailors and liveaboards and are insecure if they dont have all the trappings of the life they are pretending to escape from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who says they wanted to sail away from their stuff?

Wanabee sailors too eh? So says the internet bandit.

Insecure if they don't have..... oh stop... my sides! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

ozcruiser
23-09-07, 22:27
Whats the attraction of living in marina for years on end then?

Richard10002
23-09-07, 23:23
[ QUOTE ]
The 100K plus crowd find that they have so many "essential" items on their wish list, that they have found themselves dependent on all the stuff that they supposedly sailed to get away from. They are wanabee sailors and liveaboards and are insecure if they dont have all the trappings of the life they are pretending to escape from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said that all liveaboards had to be escaping/getting away from something? I'm not... I love being on a boat, and prefer the sun to the rain and snow, so I am going somewhere, on something, that satisfies both of these desires. Oh! what about travel and new experiences.... seems if you buy a round the world ticket, and go off backpacking, you are travelling but, in your opinion, if you travel on your boat, you must be running away from TV, constant running water, power on tap, internet??, etc..

I run my business in the UK from the boat, keep in touch with friends and family, and see them now and then. I have my wish list because I would rather be at anchor than in a marina whilst cruising, and would prefer not to have to go into a marina every now and then for water.

It seems that you think that all desire for creature comforts should evaporate as soon as you decide to live on a boat.

????

MentalPause
23-09-07, 23:28
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the attraction of living in marina for years on end then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you're being extremely presumptuous. Where do you get "living in marina for years on end" from having 'mod cons' on a boat?

I spend months at a time on my boat, have a lot of equipment, and hardly ever go into marinas - in fact - I would never go into one if only I had a watermaker!

Richard10002
23-09-07, 23:48
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the attraction of living in marina for years on end then?

[/ QUOTE ]

How stupid of me!! Should have recognised you.

How is your watermaker performing???

silver-fox
24-09-07, 00:02
Richard

You seem to be attracting a lot of flak from "some out there" for daring to say how you went about things. I am sure your views are not everybody's but you weren't being prescriptive, so I don't understand the angst you seem to have stirred up.

We have been liveaboards since July. Frankly I agree with just about every word of advice you gave - but even if I didn't I would respect your right to say it.

Too many "thought Nazis" about in my opinion. Lets have a bit of live and let live eh?

This altruism on my part does not extend to MOBOs so I too can be bigoted when required.

Happy Daze

silver-fox
24-09-07, 00:35
[ QUOTE ]
The best introduction to the issues involved in deciding on a liveaboard life is buying the book "Sell up and sail" by Bill and Laurel Cooper. They just happen to have made a posting here on this forum recently. Their book is still the ultimate reference book on how to get started in the liveaboard world. I can personally attest that most of their recommendations are spot on.



[/ QUOTE ]

Read the book and found it a bit of a parsons egg -good in parts.

Many comments such as on what to do with kids seemed from a bygone age and caused me to cry with laughter.

Quote from the book on what to do with kids

"There is a wide range of possibilities here. Boarding schools fill the bill in term time, but usually other arrangements must be made in the holidays if they cannot join you. Compliant relatives may take your child on for awhile; this was a common thing in wartime, and most of us did not seem to suffer from being parked on aunts and grandparents and changing schools at frequent intervals. The criterion has to be that the arrangement is satisfactory to all parties.

Sorry Lady Jessie but that piece of prose has to rank with Monty Python's "you are not the son of god you are a very naughty boy" as side-splittingly funny.

(My apologies if you have parked the son and heir with the Dowager Jessie BTW.)

Respect your opinion but disagree heartily ; my view was that I had to open "too many oysters for too few pearls" and generally the book showed its age.

Nuff said I think

Anonymous
24-09-07, 00:50
Richard, as you know, we have all the kit you mention (except that we have huge solar and no wind). Occasionally the generator or the watermaker goes down for a short while, and I have to repair it. Being without them reminds me just how useful they are and I don't begrudge a penny of the cost or a minute of the time it takes me to work on them.

Newcomers considering a liveaboard life need to hear the views of everyone, the 'have-nots-but-could-if-they-wanted-tos', the 'have-nots-and-could-nots' and the 'have-nots-and-soon-will-haves' as well as the haves. Only the haves can tell you what it's actually like to have

.....great /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jonjo
24-09-07, 12:08
[ QUOTE ]
Newcomers considering a liveaboard life need to hear the views of everyone

[/ QUOTE ]
You forgot "Did-have-got-fed-up".

Not been there myself but I did some yacht hitch hiking 18 years ago saw crews trapped in an aimless floating poverty in paradice.

These sell up & sail type books tend to be writen by people equipped with rose tinted glasses.

angel
24-09-07, 12:12
Thanks for all your replies (wow) lots to think about,
We are sure we are going to love the lifestyle we are jus looking for as much advice as possible, we both work in the uk (retail) and can transfer to almost anywhere so we will initially be staying uk rivers or on the coast but at a later date we would like to venture over to France then hopefully to the med as time allows,
So a boat suitable to live aboard full time two adults and two older children so 3 cabins would be good with good fuel economy,
How hard is it to find suitable moorings? And at what cost?
We like the trawler type boats and like the thought of steel but are open to any advice as I said our budget is around the £150k but if we can find the right thing cheaper then we have some to spare for all the other things we are going to need
Please keep the info coming.

ccscott49
24-09-07, 12:26
What a load of absolute horse manure!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Insecure?? You have to be insecure to not want to rough it?? Leccy anchor winch, Watermakers and solar panels and winnd gennys, even diesel gennys, make it much cheaper for my to be able to live, I dont need to go into marinas to get water, i can stay on a my anchor for a whole summer, no worries. I have a 100k plus boat and I have most of the bells and whistles, but I didnt need to break into any banks to do it. I bought wisely, off E bay and elsewhere, no need to spend 5.5k on a watermaker, when if you are smart and have patience, you can buy a 95lph one with 12 hours on its clock for 500 quid! I am not a wanabee sailor! I“m having a ball! If you consider that when sailing away, you have to live like a hermit, the I“ll tell you an old expresion, "any fool can rough it!" By the way I“m not escaping from anything, I still work and have been living permanently aboard for 14 years.

jonjo
24-09-07, 13:01
It is difficult to locate a design that is well suited to long-term residence alongside an inland tow path and crossing the Bay of Biscay.

From what you have said so far I think you should focus more on heating efficiency rather than motoring efficiency.

LadyJessie
24-09-07, 14:57
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Lady Jessie but that piece of prose has to rank with Monty Python's "you are not the son of god you are a very naughty boy" as side-splittingly funny.

[/ QUOTE ] OK, maybe I should have underlined MOST recommendations are spot on. Agree that some specifics could be a bit dated, but at least they cover all the points. The resulting answer might be something different today. BTW, I have not found a better book on this subject, have you?
And yes, my child is safely parked away. Thanks for your concern.