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richrich123
04-10-07, 12:16
Hi,

Can anyone advise, I am looking at a suitable vehicle for using on a slip way. I currently havea 2 litre, 150 bhp VW bora. It has more than enough power to tow my 6m rib but I am not to sure about a slip way

I know idealy you should use a 4x4 but firstly, I can't see anything decent for under 10k and most designed for 4x4 aren't a very comfortable family car.

Does anyone else use normal cars on slips? I have been told / heard of numerous stories of boats pulling cars down into the water etc.

Has anyone got any ideas on a suitable vehicle for boat trailering / launch as well as a decent family car.

Any one have any knowlege ?

Thanks

B175Chris
04-10-07, 12:21
1.9L VW Passat Sport (not too different to the Bora) was great for my Bayliner, though the slip at the powerboat club was perfect and not too steep so it was fine - the journey to france sent the mpg down from over 40 to just 13, but on the slip it had good grip and enough power.

Saying that, the slipway in france is very steep and the marina Land Rover defender has trouble occasionally and that is rigged up with power winch etc, so it's made to do the job - not ideal for a family car?

It very much depends on the steepness of the slipway, swings and roundabouts really, some will be great and others not so good /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Just in my personal experience of course /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

neale
04-10-07, 12:25
What about something like a Honda CRV. Good tow vehicles up to 1500kg, comfy as an everyday drive and not as thirsty as the more serious 4X4s.

Chris_d
04-10-07, 12:35
All I would say is if your going to get a 4x4 get a proper one, not a softroader jacked up road car type. Proper 4x4's do make excellent allround practical cars as well, worse thing I did recently was get rid of my Isuzu Trooper and change it for a Subaru Outback. I have saved on fuel and gained performance, but to be honest the big 4x4 was a massively more versatile car and I could have lived with the downsides. Try one first you may be surprised and ignore all the 4x4 knockers.

B175Chris
04-10-07, 12:38
[ QUOTE ]
ignore all the 4x4 knockers

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the Mini ones are nicer














http://www.breaktaker.com/albums/pictures/transportation/BoobsCar.jpg

Major Catastrophe
04-10-07, 12:40
I use a Kia Sorento to launch my boat. I once used it to effortlessly recover a sports boat that made a twenty year old Land Rover spin its wheels.

GrowingLad
04-10-07, 12:50
MajorCatastrophe, I've been thinking about a Sorento recently.

Do you know the max weight you can tow with one?

What are they like as a day to day car?

gjgm
04-10-07, 12:54
it really depends on how steep the slip is. The one at Northney is so steep that cars sometimes slide right into the marina, but others I ve seen and used you, need to wait for the tide! Just bear in mind that at low tide, the bottom of the slip is usually under water, and so the slime builds up. I'd say, no, you dont need a 4*4 for 6m rib as long as its not a really steep slip, and you avaoid the lowest of tides.
If its just for launching, you can get an old Cherokee for 1500 or less. That is ok for 3.3tonnes, so you can help all those with nancy 4*4s up the slip!

Its_Only_Money
04-10-07, 13:13
One technique if you have a marginal car/gearing for the boat weight/slip steepness and a fairly wide slip is to end up with the trailer square on to the water but the car at 45deg to the trailer and full steering lock on towards the direction the car and trailer will turn to, as you get the rig moving (which will be much easier than a straight pull up the slip), you straighten the whole rig up.

Works up to the limit of traction on the tyres but I've seen it get improbably-looking combos of slips when once the boat is loaded onto the trailer they might be stuck or burn the clutch trying to get moving in a straight line. Helps with powerful road cars where 1st isn't really low and the engine isn't producing much low torque....

Try it, you'll be surprised how effective it can be if you have the room.

Big problem is without a 4x4 you are probably using a front-wheel drive car, with the trailer on the weight transfer is all OFF the driving wheels, trick there is to unhitch the trailer and put it on its jockey wheel with a short rope. Much better traction as much more weight on the driving wheels. Safer than a having couple of mates on the bonnet too.

Overdraught
04-10-07, 13:14
I used my company 1.9 TDI A6 to launch/recover an 18' Bowrider. Never had a problem.

I also used a Discovery and more recently an X5 - both excellent. My view would be that if you are going 4 x 4, either get a proper one with low ratio or a smaller more efficient one with some sort of traction control. This can be more effective than low ratio.

Either way, for added security you could change the tyres to an off road/on road compromise. Before boats, i was seriously into off roading and even towed my first 13' boat to Isle of Wight behind a jacked up ancient Range Rover. 10mpg and the whole outfit worth less than 2 grand! No problem on the beach though!!

Major Catastrophe
04-10-07, 13:15
[ QUOTE ]
MajorCatastrophe, I've been thinking about a Sorento recently.

Do you know the max weight you can tow with one?

What are they like as a day to day car?

[/ QUOTE ]

Max. towing weights (kg):


Trailer with brakes - Manual 3,000 - Auto 3,500 - 3.3. Petrol 2,800
Trailer without brakes - Manual 750 - Auto 750 - 3.3. Petrol 750
Max ball weight (kg) - Manual 120 - Auto 140 - 3.3. Petrol 140

I have the XS with tiptronic auto gear box. Diesel is noisy when stood still but is unbelievably quiet once you get going and comparable with internal noise levels of BMW's et al , on the motorway.

The steering is too light, but I put up with it and the climate control electric driver's seat and heated front seats work well. Audio is good. The mono LCD sat nav display is rubbish, but it still gets me to my destination every time, but if you tend to go off route, even to a motorway service area, you will have to eject any music CD and put the nav CD back in.

It tows my boat - 2000 kgs + with no problems.

For the price it is brilliant.
If I had the money I would get a Land Cruiser!

mitchc
04-10-07, 14:02
agree with all the others re steepness of slip etc however don't get caught out!!! I've had to tow quite a few boats out for people when their 2wd (and pretend 4x4) didn't work.
Don't be afraid to ask for help from the guy with the "proper" 4x4 whos waiting to launch his boat....I'm sure they'd rather help you launch/recover than wait for 15mins watching you fry the clutch.
By the way my 4x4 is a 3.0ltr Toyota Hi-lux Surf. Auto box, with low/high range transfer box thingy. So far, i've never got stuck, even when other "pretend" 4x4's did. Normally only have to stick it in low range, into drive and take foot of brake.....Design of tyres do make a huge difference as well!
By the way it's a great road car too!!!

damon
04-10-07, 14:46
I have a Surf too, tows and slips my 20 ft Rinker without a problem.
It's better than the Range Rover I had in that the boat affects it less when driving. 5 seats and a ton of storage in the back.

Drives superb without the boat too, in 2WD mode. I took it green laning last weekend and it was great at that until I found a puddle 3 ft deep that I chickened out of going through, I think the car would have made it but it wasn't worth the risk...

Goes really well on the motorway too, I drove to Yorkshire and back this week, 500 miles round trip 80 quids worth of diesel.

Kipper
04-10-07, 15:50
I have been looking at surfs and they seem good value, what sort of MPH and MPG do you get when not towing.?

DAKA
04-10-07, 15:52
You dont need a 4x4 for towing.

If it is just grip you are looking for why not check out Rally tyres ?

I have seen plenty of 4x4s getting pulled back wards as they only have smooth road tyres anyway.
You will find they are more expensive and slightly noisier on the motor way but all insignificant compared with 4x4 which are noisy, guzzle juice and cost a fortune in tyres

colingr
04-10-07, 16:04
I use a Saab 95 Automatic to launch / retrieve a Maxum 1800 from various slips with no problem, usually with the kids in the boat. A bit of planning works wonders. Not failed yet. If it's too wet and weedy use a rope as previously posted.

nicks
04-10-07, 16:07
I would always recomend a 4x4 for towing, its not just the pulling its also the stopping in a hurry, you don't want the trailer overtaking you. On steep slips i just use the low range on my Range Rover and it pulls my 7m rib out on tickover.

landlockedpirate
04-10-07, 16:21
I have towed a variety of boats (Upto 3500kg) with a selection of proper 4x4's over the last decade. I have used Disco's (V8 and TD5), Defender and Grand Cherokee's. The power and grip of a decent 4x4 on the slipway makes launching and recovery childsplay.

However in recent years I have downsized the boats and also the towcar. We currently tow with a Honda CR-V diesel, but I have also used my Bora (1.8T) to move the boat . Both cars have the same towing limit, but the CR-V is a lot happier than the Bora. In the wet the bora can simply sit still spinning its wheels trying to get some grip, the CR-V does the same but then the 4x4 kicks in and off we go.For this reason I wouldnt consider using the Bora on a slipway. (Your boat is probably lighter than ours though).

I run the Honda as a compromise, it has car like driving qualities and running costs with some 4x4 ability. I would reccomend it for boats upto 1000kg but not over. We find it will launch and recover on most reasonable slipways but when its steep and long the smell of burning clutch can linger for quite a while !

This slipway at Fowey is about as steep as you could go (You can see how steep by the distance the car is from the water while the trailer is submerged) Despite it being modern grippy concrete with no slime, 2 wheel drive cars could not even pull empty trailers up it. The CR-V nearly died and I have need a new clutch since. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/landlockedpirate/CIMG0217.jpg

A full 4x4 is the best thing for towing and launching, but if your circumstances wont allow one then an SUV such as a Nissan X Trail or CR-V will be simialr running costs and driving to your Bora but will help with the towing as well.


Mark

richrich123
04-10-07, 16:31
Thanks for all those really useful comments. The slip at Littlehampton 9West Sussex) is quite steep but it is also used for the lifeboat rib so the RNLI keep is clean and well maintained.

Pity they wont share their tractor !

richrich123
04-10-07, 16:38
Oh yes,

Forgot to ask, any rough ideas on the weight of my rib, a 2005 6m zodiac 16 with Mercury 115 hp.

I believe the engine is 181 KG / 400 lbs.

This is a picture of my local slip? What do you think ?

http://www.boatlaunch.co.uk/images/dataimages/9773/544___Selected.JPG

http://www.boatlaunch.co.uk/images/dataimages/9773/190___Selected.jpg

Cheers

richrich123
04-10-07, 16:54
Just found weights:

RIB = 300 kg
Engine 181 KG

+ 481 KG in total.

I guess that is not so heavy to need a specialist 4x4

Tekkie
04-10-07, 17:02
[ QUOTE ]
Just found weights:

RIB = 300 kg
Engine 181 KG

+ 481 KG in total.

I guess that is not so heavy to need a specialist 4x4

[/ QUOTE ]

It does'nt stop there:
+ Fuel @ say 1Kg per Lt
+ oil
+ Anchour & chain
+ Ancillaries
+ Weight of trailer

Chas25
04-10-07, 17:03
Do you have a braked or unbraked trailer? I would say your rig (including trailer) is going to be around 1000kg (200kg engine 2-300kg trailer + 500 for the boat and fuel/equipment) but then I could be wrong!

I think that the Bora is too small, it will cope alot of the time, but your asking alot of it and I suspect things will start to wear out faster than they might otherwise have, in which case you'll be spending more on maintenance!

Also as has been said before its the stopping thats the problem and reason to have something more substantial

I used to tow an 18ft bowrider weighing 1350kg with a Subaru Forester, 4 wheel drive on that was fine for the job, plus it was a great road car!

mitchc
04-10-07, 17:03
[ QUOTE ]
I have been looking at surfs and they seem good value, what sort of MPH and MPG do you get when not towing.?

[/ QUOTE ]
mph....as fast as you want! it gets a bit scary at 115!!!
mpg...depends how heavy your right foot is....up to 28mpg on a run.
only down fall is they've only got small (65ltr) tanks compared to others.
apart from that it's probably the best car i've ever owned. It does everything really well, and when you want it's not slow of the lights either. In sport mode it surprises a fair few cars!!
Go for a 3.0ltr as the 2.4 are a bit under powered.

nicks
04-10-07, 17:05
i think a small engined fromt wheel drive car will struggle to get grip on that slip, also as the 4x4 is higher you can get the trailer further in the water ad then you won't have to worry about winching the boat by hand.

mitchc
04-10-07, 17:08
[ QUOTE ]
You dont need a 4x4 for towing.

If it is just grip you are looking for why not check out Rally tyres ?

I have seen plenty of 4x4s getting pulled back wards as they only have smooth road tyres anyway.
You will find they are more expensive and slightly noisier on the motor way but all insignificant compared with 4x4 which are noisy, guzzle juice and cost a fortune in tyres

[/ QUOTE ]

agree that tyres make a huge difference.....but disagree that 4x4 are noisy, drink excessively and are expensive on tyres:

90mph normal conrversation
28mpg ain't bad.....(ready for the flak!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
75 per tyre is pretty good when they last 60k miles. Tyres on my Alfa cost 185 each and only lasted 6k!!!!

nicks
04-10-07, 17:15
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You dont need a 4x4 for towing.

If it is just grip you are looking for why not check out Rally tyres ?

I have seen plenty of 4x4s getting pulled back wards as they only have smooth road tyres anyway.
You will find they are more expensive and slightly noisier on the motor way but all insignificant compared with 4x4 which are noisy, guzzle juice and cost a fortune in tyres

[/ QUOTE ]

agree that tyres make a huge difference.....but disagree that 4x4 are noisy, drink excessively and are expensive on tyres:

90mph normal conrversation
28mpg ain't bad.....(ready for the flak!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
75 per tyre is pretty good when they last 60k miles. Tyres on my Alfa cost 185 each and only lasted 6k!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, tyres aren't to badly priced and last along time - i get 28+mpg and in comparison much more economic than my diesel rib

Kipper
04-10-07, 17:17
Cheers will have a good luck at a 95 3ltr ive just seen.

Thanks for the inside info sounds good to me.

gary

Lakesailor
04-10-07, 17:42
A CRV or similar without a low ratio box is going to get a hammering on a slipway. I have one and traction is not an issue. That's more down to technique, but the lack of a low ration means you will have to slip the clutch. Bad. Bad.

Better to use a long strop between the car and trailer and keep the car on the level ground above the slip. This avoids the risk of slithering down and also reduces the effort required as the car's weight doesn't need dragging up the slope, in addition to the boat.

http://www.lakelandimages.co.uk/Forum%20pics/07October/PWCLaunch.jpg

Kawasaki
04-10-07, 18:28
Hmm, that slip looks in good nick but pretty steep.
MajorCatstrophe launches and recovers on a pretty steep and slippy slip, with His Kia.
His boat is heavier than Your R.I.B I would think.
His rig towes OK as He mentioned.
I think the Peace of Mind of a 4x4 would swing it for Me.
Said slip(the Majors) has seen Cars and Trailers slide into the Briney.
I retreived a 6 meter (Ribeye) with a 115 Four Stroke Yam on the back Monday.
With an old Cherokee.
I was glad of the selectable four wheel drive system.

If I was going to buy a Tow Vehicle that would do the Job in most circumstances I would by a Grand Cherokee 2.7 crd diesel.
Not the 2.5 or 3.1 they have the VM based unit which is Garbage.
The 2.7 Common Rail is good for 30 to the gall/ maybe 35 if not thrashed.
Solo that is.
51/52 plate ones are very reasonabley priced right now.
Good bits of kit, imho and nice to drive

richrich123
04-10-07, 19:45
May seem stupid but it seems hard to tell if 4x4

Kawasaki above suggested a Grand Cherokee 2.7 crd diesel.

I found the model on autotrader

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/car...rch_full=SEARCH (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=searc h_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassea rched=Y&make=JEEP&min_pr=75&source=0&model=ANY&max _pr=10000&miles=40&agerange=&mileage=4&postcode=bn 17+7nw&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&tr ansmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=69&ukc arsearch_full.y=11&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH)

It does not mention 4x4 ??

Is it an option which this one does not have ?

Its_Only_Money
04-10-07, 19:54
[ QUOTE ]
Just found weights:

RIB = 300 kg
Engine 181 KG

+ 481 KG in total.

I guess that is not so heavy to need a specialist 4x4

[/ QUOTE ]

The 300Kg may be for the bare unfitted hull, make sure any consoles, tanks etc are allowed for....

Chris_d
04-10-07, 19:58
Yep agreed, my Trooper gave me 10years trouble free motoring, Tyres similar to you 55k a set, 90mph cruise, err... 22mpg, but I could have bought diesel I suppose. Despite what the greenies say I reckon everybody should own a 4x4, its the only car you'll ever need, most people would have bought 5-10 normal cars in the lifetime of the average 4x4, is that greener?

Its_Only_Money
04-10-07, 19:58
[ QUOTE ]
May seem stupid but it seems hard to tell if 4x4

Kawasaki above suggested a Grand Cherokee 2.7 crd diesel.

I found the model on autotrader

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/car...rch_full=SEARCH (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=searc h_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassea rched=Y&make=JEEP&min_pr=75&source=0&model=ANY&max _pr=10000&miles=40&agerange=&mileage=4&postcode=bn 17+7nw&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&tr ansmissionid=0&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=69&ukc arsearch_full.y=11&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH)

It does not mention 4x4 ??

Is it an option which this one does not have ?

[/ QUOTE ]

All Jeeps have some form of 4wd, mostly given impressive-sounding titles like Selec-Trac or Command-Trac, some are permanent 4wd like the RR, some are part-time 4wd like early series landrovers. All will do the job on the slipway. One of the advantage of Disco/Range Rovers is that control of the diff lock and low ratio are seperate so you can select low ratio but leave the differential bezween the front and rear axles - which is what you want on a concrete slipway....

B175Chris
04-10-07, 20:34
i'm not sure about the Sorento, I can't fit enough pies in the boot.

AuntyRinum
04-10-07, 20:34
[ QUOTE ]
...What are they like as a day to day car? ...

[/ QUOTE ]
There are cars that are more suitable.

BillyBloater
04-10-07, 20:35
Nice avatar

photodog
04-10-07, 20:36
With my Sorrento I can barely tow my own arse up the slipway.......

Sixpence
04-10-07, 20:36
You can pick up a second hand Range Rover for under 10000 , perfect for towing and slipways

BillyBloater
04-10-07, 20:36
I find that an Ice cream van is just the job.

JKay
04-10-07, 20:40
I can't fit in the bleedin'drivers seat

cheers Joe

B175Chris
04-10-07, 20:41
I prefer bucket seats...













KFC family buckets if possible /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

JKay
04-10-07, 20:43
as for the handbrake it's got a right cheek

gets right up my khyber pass

cheers Joe

Major Catastrophe
04-10-07, 20:45
My next car is going to be a fish and chip wagon.

Sixpence
04-10-07, 20:53
Really ?? I was thinking about that but opted for a Reliant Robin , saves changing from calling it my RR

B175Chris
04-10-07, 20:56
I too have a reliant Robin, but have had to fit two wheels at the front due to an unexplained list to starboard...

Mike_S
04-10-07, 20:57
[ QUOTE ]
You can pick up a second hand Range Rover for under 10000 , perfect for towing and slipways

[/ QUOTE ]

And 3 weeks ago I did just that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's a bit different from the M3 I gave back to BMW though that's for sure /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

JKay
04-10-07, 21:07
Just because were big it don't mean we are strong

I can't even pick up a Mini let alone a Range Rover /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers Joe

richrich123
04-10-07, 21:45
What about the Nissan X-Trail, I have seen a few good reviews in boat mags about them as tow cars.

B175Chris
04-10-07, 21:46
It is perfect for towing burger vans - I have done specific errr research...

Kawasaki
04-10-07, 22:18
Ok a bit of Jeep enlightenement.
Jeep as in Jeep , not "Jeep" as in Copies.
We are talking Jeep here.
Not Suzuki "Jeep" or other Four Wheel drives.
1993 saw the Jeep Cherokee introduced into the UK through "Inchcape" with a Dealer network.
Jeep Uk was born.
Jeep Cherokee, was the "Square one", Jeep Wrangler was like the one John Wayne won the War in.
The "Grand Cherokee" was a bit bigger and "Rounder" first ones were on the "N" 95/96
Early Cherokees had a system of selectable four wheel drive.
Grand Cherokees have a system of Permanent four wheel drive(limited slipt diff) or Diff lock in low drive.
Ie a Grand Cherokee is always in 4x4.
For serious stuff it can be stuffed into Diff Lock, whilst on the move, by the way!
Starting to bore myself now.
If anybody wants to know about Jeeps and other 4x4's gis a PM.
Was My living for 15 Years.
Prior to that. I made a living from Riding 2 wheels off road.
Can't make My Nimbus do a wheelie though!
Must try harder /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BrendanS
04-10-07, 22:24
Had a Jeep Cherokee soon after they were being imported. 4 ltd se. Superb car. Many here who drove landdrovers kept telling me I couldn't have done what I did off road when landrovers got stuck and my cherokee kept going. Col has it now.

Shuggy
04-10-07, 22:32
I made the mistake of buying a Saab 95 Aero estate. Worst car buying mistake of my life. You should avoid them like the plague - they're unbelievably fragile, have very poor reliability, are very expensive to repair, and the dealers round here are bas****s. I would never, ever consider buying another one. Pile of poo. And I've never towed with it - I can't imagine how short-lived they would be if you tried to pull a boat behind them!

JKay
04-10-07, 23:15
Agree with all you've said about them,reminder to every one

Just don't slam the hatch or the doors when it's parked on a

slope or at an angle /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Cheers Joe

Kawasaki
04-10-07, 23:31
Why? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
You've don Me head in?
Lockout or summat? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Kawasaki
04-10-07, 23:35
Ltd Se was the Full Hit.
Real Leather and Walnut You Posh Git!
Like you say though, proper off road cars.

Lakesailor
04-10-07, 23:38
Like Brendan I had a Cherokee 4 litre Ltd.
Good points :-Small, very quick and mucho grip. Great on the road and permanent 4WD. Pull a tank up a brick wall. Auto is really good for difficult towing.
Bad points :- 15 mpg, water leaks and (strangely) very harsh ride on rough terrain.

I wish I hadn't flogged it for a Beemer 5 Sporting. Even with the massive fuel consumption I still wouldn't have lost so much money.

BrendanS
04-10-07, 23:39
Nice car, on road and off road. Had lots of sales guys used to very expensive cars. Used to fall asleep on long journeys with early starts in my passenger seat, and comment how comfortable it was, ride and seats. Nice comfortable eather seats for long trips.

Got a landrover salesman fired for that purchase tho!

Those bloody alloys though. First valet, and they'd use some alloy destroying chemical, which would sit in the intricate detail for long enough to throw it out as you drove off, and alloys stuffed.

Used to drive through flooded fords, long flooded roads, and up hills where few off roads would venture. Low weight and high power.

landlockedpirate
04-10-07, 23:45
I Had a Grand Cherokee when they 1st appeared (97), only had the 4.0 Laredo-no leather, not a posh git /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

They lent me a oil burner once and I'm sure it was only 2 wheel drive in normal use, realised quite quickly as I slid backwards down the steep wet hill out of Bowness ! Hit the selecta thing and it sorted it out.

Lakesailor
04-10-07, 23:48
That's why we need 4WD here. Never mind Chelsea Tractors!

realslimshady
05-10-07, 00:07
One technique if you have a marginal car/gearing for the boat weight/slip steepness and a fairly wide slip is to end up with the trailer square on to the water but the car at 45deg to the trailer and full steering lock on towards the direction the car and trailer will turn to, as you get the rig moving (which will be much easier than a straight pull up the slip), you straighten the whole rig up.

Shirley that means your car will be half underwater? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

BrendanS
05-10-07, 00:08
Sadly, when the first Grand came out, they lost their real off road roots. The Cherokee was a real off roader, the Grand wasn't

BrendanS
05-10-07, 00:10
that would really limit the number of slips you can tow from? I can't think of any that wide?

realslimshady
05-10-07, 00:20
can't quite work out how you could have the trailer side on-and in the water to float the boat onto-with the car still attached...

BrendanS
05-10-07, 00:26
I can't work out what you are trying to suggest in your posts. Trailer has to get boat on, car has to drive up ramp which is limited in lateral width, unless you know some very wide ones?

realslimshady
05-10-07, 00:31
'its only money' on page 1 of this thread wrote:

One technique if you have a marginal car/gearing for the boat weight/slip steepness and a fairly wide slip is to end up with the trailer square on to the water but the car at 45deg to the trailer and full steering lock on towards the direction the car and trailer will turn to, as you get the rig moving (which will be much easier than a straight pull up the slip), you straighten the whole rig up.

And I'm asking how you can do that,get the boat on the trailer,and not have the car half-submerged..
As I'm possibly going to start trailing mine behind a fwd saloon car..

BrendanS
05-10-07, 00:42
don't try, most slips are not wide enough. If you are not sure of ability to get up slip, get a heavy rope to trailer, and have the car up on the dry level bit, and tow from there

RogerRat
05-10-07, 07:09
[ QUOTE ]
I was glad of the selectable four wheel drive system.

I would buy a Grand Cherokee 2.7 crd diesel.
Not the 2.5 or 3.1 they have the VM based unit which is Garbage.
The 2.7 Common Rail is good for 30 to the gall/ maybe 35 if not thrashed.
Solo that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to confirm as I've owned all three of those Jeeps. The 2.5 was manual only and the box is like that from an old lorry. Not nice in traffic but certainly towed and launched 20' grp Cod Master with 75hp on the back loaded with 4 passengers.

The 2.5 was gutless as a road car though. The 3.1 Grand Cherokee is also naff on the road and thirsty low 20's mpg and no mid range over taking ability. The last one I had was the 2.7 CRD. This is a much better car all round, steers, stops and reasonably quick compared to the others. Fuel best was 30 on a run averged about 26ish.

Jeeps are UNDER braked in my opinion, the 3.1 had discs replaced 3 times. The cars are too heavy for their tiny under sized discs. Btw, I drive lightly on brakes and never wore the pads out in 50k miles, but the discs distorted often, even the loan car had a bouncy pedal and grabbed at final stop. The 2.7 was better, but I would def. want a braked trailer if towing with a Jeep.

Oops, forgot, The 2.5 was selectable 2 or 4 wheel drive. The Grand Cherokees' are full time 4x4. Good in the wet and ice but use more fuel.

Lakesailor
05-10-07, 08:13
Quite agree Brendan. I fact I agree so much I said as much on page 2

"Better to use a long strop between the car and trailer and keep the car on the level ground above the slip. This avoids the risk of slithering down and also reduces the effort required as the car's weight doesn't need dragging up the slope, in addition to the boat"

I sense an attempt at lakesailoring /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Its_Only_Money
05-10-07, 10:16
[ QUOTE ]
One technique if you have a marginal car/gearing for the boat weight/slip steepness and a fairly wide slip is to end up with the trailer square on to the water but the car at 45deg to the trailer and full steering lock on towards the direction the car and trailer will turn to, as you get the rig moving (which will be much easier than a straight pull up the slip), you straighten the whole rig up.

Shirley that means your car will be half underwater? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope a quick straighten up as soon as rolling does the trick, you can do it in a 1.5 car-wide slip or so, depends on how quick you are on the wheel.

Its_Only_Money
05-10-07, 10:29
[ QUOTE ]
I can't work out what you are trying to suggest in your posts. Trailer has to get boat on, car has to drive up ramp which is limited in lateral width, unless you know some very wide ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know of any not wide enough, it doesn't take as much space as you'd think. I also know plenty of slips where high tide restricts the ability to use a long rope, or the angle of the slip would cause a long rope to chafe on the ground - which is definitely not safe either.

Anyone interested PM me and I'll concoct a diagram, its not a technique I'd want to rely upon to make up for a known difficult combo but if you have a fwd and find, once the boat is loaded, that its a bit marginal getting back up then it might quickly let you recover the situation.

Mercury is wide enough, Calshot would be miles wide enough. You don't have to tow the boat up the whole slipway at 45deg (although that would obviously give you an apparantly shallower slip and be easier on any tow vehicle, it is just a technique for giving you an apparantly shallower slip for the first 1-2m of movement to allow you to overcome inertia and avoid wheelspinning and clutch burning. Oh and it works.

Its_Only_Money
05-10-07, 10:59
Here's a piccie of what I mean http://www.infotecservices.net/CaronSlip.jpg

Mod the angles to suit the space available....even angling the front (driving wheels) while the car is straight makes some difference and might mean recovery or not...

realslimshady
05-10-07, 20:41
gotcha
think i may have been misled by your angles earlier!
may just keep the mooring instead... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kawasaki
06-10-07, 02:07
The Laredo had a different system to the Ltd.
Same as the Wrangler.
2H 4H and 4L.

Ltd had 4H (kinda lmited slip) and 4 L (difflocked). So there was no real "On Road" 4 wheel drive in the Laredo's case.

Kawasaki
06-10-07, 02:27
The GRAND actually had a better off road (and on road, for that matter) performance than the Cherokee.
More axel articulation and better grip all round.
Roger, there was a Recall ref the Brake Discs.
3 sets?
Summat was up.
Dealer must have dropped a Bo%%ock.
Modified discs were issued.
Tyres would last Me 35k.
Discs 100k, that's the 2.7 crd Grand.
That's towing a lot of the time too.
Driving a 4ltr (97 Cherokee) at the Mo, taken in PX recently.
97k on it's second set and performing OK.
Also got an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Converible.
92 K reg done 61000 , on it's second set of front discs at 56000!
Don,t think they brake much in the US oF A!
Love it to bits though.
No rust everything works, Air con , cruise the lot!
Reminds Me of Me.
Thirsty, laid back, over the Hill and Dead Cool /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Major Catastrophe
06-10-07, 09:38
In reply to no one in particular, if you do not have a 4x4 or have a faux 4x4, or even a proper 4x4 and a sttep slip with slippery surface, the easiest and cheapest way to make sure you don't get stuck is to fit a 150 front tow hitch like this one. (http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/launching_boats.html)

It turns launching and recovery into a doddle, especially for those who do not like backing up with a trailer.

When not in use, the ball hitch detaches.

Watling - no connection - can supply DIY kits, or can fit in one visit, with an appointment.

Lakesailor
06-10-07, 10:35
Good point, Caravan parks always have a Landie with a front tow hitch for moving static homes. The Warden's launch tractor only uses a front tow hitch. Is also helps with weight distribution on FWD vehicles, increasing grip on the driving wheels.

CaptainMike1970
06-10-07, 16:06
All very interesting stuff on 4x4's but as it is only a 6m RIB (not say a 24ft sports cruiser) so not very heavy and you appear to have a perfectly servicable car in your VW Bora I would suggest a long length of rope and leave the car safely at the top of the slip on the nice grippy dry bit and reverse the boat/trailer in / pull it out from there. This will save you loads of money by not having to buy a new car which means more money to spend on fuel for the boat!

Check the hand book of your car but it is likely reverse is a lower gear than first gear, so attaching the rope to the front towing eye and reversing up the slip gives you better visability of the tow and more gearing/pulling power to work with.

Lakesailor
06-10-07, 17:12
Quite agreehttp://www.lakelandimages.co.uk/Forum%20pics/07October/brendan.jpg Mike. I fact I agree so much I said as much on page 2

"Better to use a long strop between the car and trailer and keep the car on the level ground above the slip. This avoids the risk of slithering down and also reduces the effort required as the car's weight doesn't need dragging up the slope, in addition to the boat"

I sense an attempt at lakesailoring /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

mikehibb
06-10-07, 17:54
If you do not have enough space to use a long tow strop there is another possibility.

You can get small (2000kg pulling power) hitch mounted winches.

Keep the car on the flat and winch the trailer up, then just lift it off and hook up to trailer, advantage is that you save the cost of buying a 4x4 and you can put it in the back of the car easily then keep in garage at home when not required.

Note I have not tried one of these, just heard about them, as I already have an old land rover with hitches mounted both front and rear. (also have a 9000lb winch) but never needed it due to having the land rover. (winch was for self recovery when off roading)

There is a sailing club on the Thames Estuary (I forget which one) where I believe the members clubbed together to buy an old landie just for launching and recovery. OK they did have the advantage that the slipway was on private land and had access to the local Pub back yard where they could keep it without need for tax MOT etc, If I recall the pub was know as the "Nearly Inn" as it was built on the sea wall and the gents toilet used to flood if they left the window open when there was a high tide and the wind was in the wrong direction.

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif