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MatthewOsborne
02-11-07, 17:57
A little like BamBam's posting I too am seeking a little advice on a potential cruising plan. Like BamBam I am also a new user so I am not exactly sure how this forum melarkey all works!

I am planning to take a four month break from work with my partner during the summer of 2009 with a view to cruising through the Creek Islands, Turkey and possibly on to Cyprus all time permitting etc.

I currently own a boat in the UK but was thinking about buying another boat in either Greece, Croatia or maybe Turkey specifically for the trip. On completion of the four months, we would either sell the boat again or, should we love it, have it delivered to the UK whereupon we would sell the boat we have in the UK. I was thinking of doing it this way so I don't loose the boat I have (Westerly Pageant), which is far from ideal for the trip but nevertheless enjoyed in the UK despite being a little small, in the event that we don't want to bring the new boat back. Basically, don't want to be left boatless if I can avoid it but it could be away of upscaling.

My question is whether or not this is at all practical and whether I am missing some obvious flaws in my thinking. VAT is a concern; if VAT is not paid on a boat and we import to UK do you pay VAT on our purchase price or the original from new purchase price - clearly an budgetary consideration.

I am looking at a budget of between 24-30k max which from reviewing the market seems fine for a 32-36ft boat.

Does anyone know anything about the Discovery 3200 of which there seem to be so many for sale in Greece and perhaps where I might find pictures of the interior layout or a even a review.

Any help welcomed.

Jonny_H
02-11-07, 18:15
If you register on Boatshed (easy and no spam) they have lots of pics of one:

http://www.boatshed.com/discovery_3200-boat-21570.html

Looks like a nice boat - if there's lots in Greece there's a chance they are ex-charter?

Sounds like a good plan you've got. I think 4 months wouldn't be long enough to get to the Med and do your sailing and come home - so buying something out there is your best option - but it may not be very easy to sell?

VAT - you will, as far as I'm aware, pay VAT on the value of the boat (ie price you paid) if you import it into the EU. If you buy one in the EU ex VAT it probably has been a charter, in which case you need to take it out of the EU within 1 month or you will have to pay VAT (this is as far as my knowledge goes on this - although lots of people on here will know).

Good luck with your plans

Jonny

Guitarrich
02-11-07, 18:56
I think the "Disco 3200" is much like the infamous 3000, but with a sugar scoop, and often wheel steering. They're brilliant sailing boats, and heavily built in Lavrion. Drawbacks are standard of finish and keeping them watertight. The hatches ALWAYS leaked, so check for modifications in this area. Many will be ex-charter boats so possibly scruffy. But, a spruce up is always possible!

LadyJessie
02-11-07, 22:26
very comical! You should audition for the Jon Stewart Show.

macd
03-11-07, 00:13
If you buy a boat in the EU that's VAT paid or "deemed VAT paid" in the EU then it's VAT paid in the EU -- all of the EU. The EU includes the UK. That's where the "union" bit comes from.
Beware of buying a boat outside the EU, unless it can be arranged that the actual sale is completed in EU waters (such as sailing across to the nearest Greek island from Turkey to do the paperwork, which is routinely done in that part of the world). Even if VAT was previously paid in the EU, if the boat was exported and resold outside the EU, it becomes payable again when it's re-imported.

Got that? Good, because there will be questions later. (Excuse frivolity: just got back from a rather agreeable bar.)

MatthewOsborne
03-11-07, 11:27
Thanks all for the information to date, really helpful stuff. Im liking the look of the 'Disco' 3200 from the pictures but i guess the difficulty is being able to see one in the flesh given that I am UK based. Cheers.

jimbaerselman
03-11-07, 11:44
Look closely at the stern of the Discovery. You'll discover /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif that just over a metre is nothing to do with accommodation - it's a big sugar scoop.

So don't be led astray
when comparing LOA.

scarlett
04-11-07, 21:13
VAT valuation is a little more complicated than taking the price paid. that would be all too easy to 'fix'. Check the system used in the country where you intend to pay the VAT and get a receipt.

Swagman
04-11-07, 23:39
If you take time out to contact marinas or livaboards in the area you want to cruise most, you'll almost certainly find several UK registered yachts for sale with VAT already paid.
Lots of expats do their bit and then move back to the UK - making it possible for you to buy locally.
Good luck
JOHN

BigEd
05-11-07, 12:38
Why not just charter a boat for 4 months? You can make really good deal, avoid any troubles with refitting, VAT, other taxes etc.

Just spend time on trip and fly home relaxed. I think it would be the same cost after all really but much less headake, if you really like you current boat and don't want to upgrade.

After all it is much easier to buy a boat than to sell. You may try to contact one of many Brits who keep their boats in Turkey and may be want to sell. Anyone would be happy to charter you a boat for the whole season.

Melody
08-11-07, 16:19
Yes, I agree with BigEd - why not charter?
You should get a good rate for 4 months but never pay what you are first asked for!
If you want to know what the 'going rate' is for a yacht of a certain size, please pm me.

DavidJ
08-11-07, 19:22
We looked at buying in Greece in 2001 because the prices seemed so good. However there are scams where owners were claiming charter use but not actually chartering and not paying VAT (or whatever it's called out there)
Can you really recognise a Greek invoice showing for definite tax paid?? I couldn't, so backed off and bought UK

I like the charter suggestion. It will seem expensive but the real cost of boat ownership is horrendous and fullof surprises

captainslarty
08-11-07, 19:46
errr. hire a greek lawyer for an hour ??

Cheaper than yer flight home.. or is that difficult.. or maybe they are all in on the scheme ?

Spooky in the east..

jimbaerselman
09-11-07, 12:14
A Greek flag boat, registered for charter in Greece, is normally TVA (VAT) not paid. The fact that it hasn't been chartered is (perhaps) because the owner has found this a convenient way fo paying less, yet still enjoying the use of the boat, in spite of the cost of meeting charter regs and inspections.

When it is re-registered to a different flag, or for private ownership only, VAT will be payable. Any accountant or lawyer, for some tens of euros, will advise on whether the sales documents are for a VAT paid (or other wise) vessel.

And the threat of asking for an accountant's advice about the VAT state of a boat will quickly flush out the truth.

Melody
11-11-07, 20:34
[ QUOTE ]
there are scams where owners were claiming charter use but not actually chartering

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually quite difficult to do here. If a charter boat does not have 180 days of charter in the three years of its licence (evidenced by being checked out by the Greek port police who examine the charter contract and stamp its official papers) it loses its professional status and tax perks.

I think owners are allowed 30 days per year to friends but they must charter for at least a month each year.

Boats that are kept like this can be extremely good buys as they are often fairly lightly used and more like a private than a charter boat.

If you want any advice about whether a yacht is professional, whether VAT has been paid, or whatever, can I recommend Antonis Mangos in Palio Faliro? He is an accountant for many many charter firms and knows about all there is to know about Greek charter boats, including all the scams.

He can also take you through the whole process of transferring a boat from professional to private status as he does it many times each year for people.

It would probaly cost you less than 100 euro for him to find out the status of any boat you are interested in. PM me if you want his email address or phone number.

MatthewOsborne
02-12-07, 12:05
Hi Melody.

Thanks for picking up on the Charter suggestion, I would be interested in 'going rates' if you can help at all. We're looking for a boat between 32 - 36 foot for 3 or 4 months from May of June.

I am afraid I don't know what 'pm me' actual means as I'm new to forums so if you would prefer this conversation off line, please let me know how.

Look forward to hearing from you.