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View Full Version : Cruising Chute - TriRadial, Radial head... What fabric , what weight?



aidancoughlan
28-04-09, 23:27
Thanks to all who recommended UK sailmakers for cruising chutes to me recently. (For Cruising, and occasional "social" club racing). I now have another problem, quotes came back and I need to decide a few things.

(1) Radial Head or worth paying more for TriRadial Chute?
(2) For 28ft cruiser, 0.75oz fabric or heaver (1.5oz?) .... I definitely wont be flying it > F4, but may end up trying my patience in light winds. Will 1.5oz fabric collapse in light airs ? Most quoted 0.75oz, and one that quoted both was cheaper for 1.5oz !? Is it normal that the heavier is cheaper ?

Without naming prices, the order of "preferred cost first" in my case was as follows: Any recommendations which of these to go for ?

SEA TEACH
Radial Head ,fabric unspecified .75 OZ, red/white/blue 400sq feet. (SL=32ft, SMW=18ft

KEMP
Full Radial, Cruising Chute, , color coded tapes, tough luff tape, external O-rings on clew and head, color coded corners, bad & sail trim guide.
Dimension Polyant 32 CHS 0.75oz (GOOD DISCOUNT UNTIL END APRIL)

MOMENTUM SAILS
Full Radial Sail type AR (standardised sizes, not custom) Bainbridge AIRX 600 .75oz cloth

CRUSADER
Radial Head Cruising Chute (1.5oz, Cruiser , fabric not specified) inclusive.
TriRadial Cruising Chute (Cruiser Racer, (????) weight nor fabric specified)


QUAY SAILS
Tri-Radial, Challenge.75 OZ ripstop nylon, 18 colours
Radial, Challenge .75 OZ ripstop nylon, 18 colours

ROLLY TASKER (THAILAND)
Tri Radial Asymmetrical MPS********************
0.75 oz US Nylon:* Area 40.66m2 ***********


JECKELLS
Radial Head, unspecified cloth, 1.5oz ripstop
TriRadial, unspecified cloth 1.5oz


GOWEN Ocean 5 weeks
Rocked Radial Cruising Chute MP90*(1.5oz) , 3 color
Rocked Radial Cruising Chute MP70*(.75oz) , 3 color
"The MP90*(1.5oz) will be the strongest and is possibly the best choice, if the majority or your sailing will be cruising. "

jonjo
29-04-09, 02:03
Here is something to consider. If you are not an experienced racing man pushing the envelope you are unlikely to use this sail much in over 10kts of wind. Such a large sail in 5-10 kts winds will generate high relative boat speed to wind speed which means apart form a dead run the apparent wind will often come a long way forward.

If the above seem applicable to you consider a flatter cut.

A 1.5oz cloth is nice and robust, which useful since these sails are vulnerable to tears during launch and drop mishandling.

flaming
29-04-09, 02:48
[ QUOTE ]
Here is something to consider. If you are not an experienced racing man pushing the envelope you are unlikely to use this sail much in over 10kts of wind. Such a large sail in 5-10 kts winds will generate high relative boat speed to wind speed which means apart form a dead run the apparent wind will often come a long way forward.

If the above seem applicable to you consider a flatter cut.

A 1.5oz cloth is nice and robust, which useful since these sails are vulnerable to tears during launch and drop mishandling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about contradictions!
Light winds only but 1.5oz....?
You would really notice the difference between 0.75 and 1.5 in less than 10 knots.
And I really don't think I would go for the flatter cut, heavy cruising boats really don't generate all that much apparent wind. I do a lot of racing on what by comparison are really quite light boats, and we still have very full light kites.
We also fly 0.75 oz in 20+kts of wind, so it's hardly tissue paper...

For what it's worth I think the best sail for your use out of that group will be a tri radial 0.75 oz. It's up to you the balance between that and the price.
But I'd also trust the sailmakers much more than some bloke on the internet, so what do I know....

FullCircle
29-04-09, 08:31
I totally agree with flaming. Tri Radial & 0.75oz.
We have had ours for 4 years, and it doesn't get that much use (Mrs FC calls it the Beast). Our boat is overwhelmed at above 16kts with it on the beam, but it flies.
Tighten the luff to go upwind, my tri-rad (Crusader) gets to about 60 degrees app, which isnt too shabby.

I think you will find that Crusader use Bainbridge cloths.

lw395
29-04-09, 10:52
1.5oz cruising chute on my 39ft boat really felt like it needed about 8kts of apparent wind to set nicely. Lighter would definitely have been better.
I would definitely go for tri-radial or full star cut, as anything with too many horizontal panels tends to distort quickly.
Kemp's cut a very nice sail imho.

MacMan
29-04-09, 13:25
Are you going to accept the first price the quotes came back with ?

I recently challenged one of the guys on your list and got an additional 10% off the "first quote price". I menitoned the credit crunch, said I had a sail from them the previous year and liked them but needed them to move on price.

I got 10% off - I suspect from the order of the list "my guys" weren't the cheapest anyway but I believe they do a good job.

Up to you

Cheers, mark

tri39
29-04-09, 17:42
I've now had several sails made by Crusader and am pleased with them all.
They are completely made in Poole. I find that as soon as you put a chute up the wind goes forward and increases, so do have a triradial. As to weight it depends how quickly you want to take it down. I sold my downwind spinnaker and replaced it with a crusader MPG on a roller and haven't regretted it.

aidancoughlan
29-04-09, 21:52
[ QUOTE ]
Such a large sail in 5-10 kts winds will generate high relative boat speed to wind speed which means apart form a dead run the apparent wind will often come a long way forward.... If the above seem applicable to you consider a flatter cut.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
really don't think I would go for the flatter cut, heavy cruising boats really don't generate all that much apparent wind

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find that as soon as you put a chute up the wind goes forward and increases....

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting idea, and I think I understand the principle, but it does seem counter-intuitive since my main reason for buying is as a offwind sail, as the wind gets tighter I will probably go with the roller Genoa anyway. I think I'm more likely to be trying to squeeze higher angles out of it than lower angles.... don't think I will specifically ask for a flatter cut.


[ QUOTE ]
the best sail for your use out of that group will be a tri radial 0.75 oz. It's up to you the balance between that and the price.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with flaming. Tri Radial & 0.75oz.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely go for tri-radial or full star cut, as anything with too many horizontal panels tends to distort quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.... the wind goes forward and increases, so do have a triradial.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, a Tri-Radial it is then.

[ QUOTE ]
A 1.5oz cloth is nice and robust, which useful since these sails are vulnerable to tears during launch and drop mishandling.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Talk about contradictions!
Light winds only but 1.5oz....?
You would really notice the difference between 0.75 and 1.5 in less than 10 knots.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1.5oz cruising chute on my 39ft boat really felt like it needed about 8kts of apparent wind to set nicely. Lighter would definitely have been better.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We also fly 0.75 oz in 20+kts of wind, so it's hardly tissue paper...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of a balance here. I think I'd prefer to have something that will fly in lighter winds than have a more robust sail that I am frustrated with. From one of the comments above (and reading on clothmakers sites) it seems like racers get away with 0.75oz in stronger winds than I am likely to use it in. I guess I will have to be carefull with handling it though.

[ QUOTE ]
my tri-rad (Crusader) gets to about 60 degrees app, which isnt too shabby.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kemp's cut a very nice sail imho.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've now had several sails made by Crusader and am pleased with them all.

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These were both on my "seem like good sailmakers" list having spoken to them at the boat show when I bought my main and genoa. The Kemp in my particular case is working out around 20% cheaper (until end of april) so seems tempting. I will probably go with Kemp unless they come back with a very long delivery time.

thanks again all.

FullCircle
29-04-09, 22:00
Good dissection of the thread. Best of luck, and many hours grinning whilst you are on a tippytoes reach.

Viking
30-04-09, 22:42
OK it sounds like you have a 28footer, like me. I cruises and racing (mostly single handed) (spinnaker with crew). I brought the Seateach, sounds like the one you mentioned.
I use it under 10kts of wind.
Last year I won the local intercity regatta (Cruising class) on handicap (16th out of 36 boats). Mine was the smallest boat, the largest being 42ft.) The race was over 44 miles and I did 3 C/C hoists in the race (without a snuffer). Works for me. It can be use with the wind surprising will forward the luff on the Seateach as telltales...It cheap (price) and you can afford to learn with it.
Its import to orginise your sheets and halyards and plan your hoists and drops.
So good Luck
Viking
Ålesund