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Slow_boat
26-08-10, 12:40
In a year or two swmbo and I are looking at setting off for a few months, then see what happens, on our Sadler 29 twin keeler. The idea is to see if we really like it and if we do, figure what we require from our long-term cruising boat. We will doing coast-hopping day sails towards the med or through the canals then bimbel around the med. then wherever we fancy. I've done the adventure/ocean stuff in my youth and to be honest am not really fussed about doing it again.

The boat is in pretty standard trim apart from making the bed in the main cabin a massive double by use of removable slats from Ikea.

What other gear/mods should I consider before we go?

Having looked at the favorite gadget post, I don't have room for all that stuff, I intend an oversized Rocna, new chain (how many meters?) and a plug in fridge with thermal cover to sit at the head of the quarter berth, solar panels and that's about it unless there are other things we really need to get. (extra long mooring lines? fenderboard/gangplank,that kind of thing)

highandry
26-08-10, 13:04
The only thing I would say, because there are so many mods people might suggest, is make sure you have a decent sun awning because you'll spend a lot of time in the cockpit both at anchor and alongside. I'm sure you've experienced it, the outdoor life..:D If you can get it made up and trial rig it a few times before getting down to the Med: it would be useful.

Tranona
26-08-10, 13:12
As you probably realise your boat is at the bottom end of what is comfortable for two and the lack of space limits the amount of gear you can carry. For the canal trip bicycles would be useful. Once you get to hot climes then shade and means of keeping food cool become essential. So, bimini/sunshade and fridge. You will do far more motoring than sailing so a good engine is essential as is adequate fuel capacity. Add to that a calorifier for hot water and good battery capacity with suitable charging facilities. Pressure water systems are useful and you will probably need to increase your water capacity. A holding tank, although not essential unless you want to go to Turkey, is desirable, not only for convenience but because it is likely to become mandatory in some countries in the future.

Anchoring is a key activity, so a modern anchor, windlass and a kedge are needed. Most anchoring in harbour is stern to so the boat needs to be good in reverse and you need to have a way of boarding the boat from the stern (or bow which some prefer). If you want to maximise your time sailing then large light weather sails are useful, but you run into storage problems

Probably the best investment is a weeks bareboating in somewhere nice like the Ionian where the sailing is not too demanding and you will learn a lot about living on a boat in hot climates. You might find that you need to re-assess the suitability of the Sadler and if you want to make the commitment change it for a bit bigger more modern boat for the space and ease of handling. You may find the cost of preparing the boat ends up out of proportion to its value and it might be cheaper to buy a more suitable boat. For example, you could easily spend £10k on the Sadler which is probably worth around £25k, when for £45-50k you could get a very well equipped 35 footer.

Only suggestions as people undertake such projects in a whole range of boats. There is no "ideal", but the compromises are less in the larger boats. However, if your budget is limited you may judge it better to give it a go and accept the limitations!

BTW there is masses of information on the subject - this forum, books, regular magazine articles and individual blogs. Once you start doing research you will find the sources.

Slow_boat
26-08-10, 15:18
Thanks for that. I'd overlooked anchor windlass.

The idea is to go with what we've got unless something else (Seahahk is the favorite so far) bites us on the bum. That way we've both got practical experience to know what's going to niggle and what niggles are going to become major problems, so we can take that into account for the bigger boat. We'll have about £50k plus current boat but we want to make sure we get the right one first time.

Plus, of course, I'm to tight to spend a lot on marinas and smaller boats are cheaper to park!

Tranona
26-08-10, 16:09
Lot of merit in that approach, but living on a cramped boat for long periods may put you off! With the sort of budget for the ultimate boat that you might want to spend, I would skip the 30 year old type boat. Centre cockpits, for all their merits are perhaps not the ideal for Med use. The "outside" is just as important as the inside and a big cockpit with walk through transom makes lazy life in the sun much more pleasant.

My shallow draft keel Bavaria 37 3 cabin is the 21st century compromise of space, performance and comfy living. This and similar boats are available for around £50k and in addition to being better to live on have the benefit of up to date gear. Now we have stopped Med cruising I have looked at buying a "proper" English Channel boat such as a Westerly or Moody but decided none that I have seen meet my standards of condition and equipment.

As to marinas, once you get east of Italy you will spend little time in marinas, so the higher cost loses importance. Anyhow the incremental cost of a bit bigger boat (11m rather than 9) is small in the whole scheme of things. Other costs such as maintenace or repairs can of course be significant - another reason for trying to get as new a boat as possible.

vyv_cox
26-08-10, 18:05
Lots of good advice from Tranona. I have met couples cruising in a Sadler 26, so it can be done, but what can be carried will be strictly limited. Here are a few suggestions, also covered by Tranona.

If you intend to run a fridge full time, especially the portable type that you mention, you are going to need at least 120 watts of solar panel, or run your engine for hours every day. Having three domestic batteries helps a lot but if your 29 has the same basic design as my 34 this will not be easy to arrange. I have put a starter battery in the shaft tunnel and use all three original batteries for domestic supply. Don't think you can use temporary panels for this sort of power, you really need an arch.

A bimini that can be used when sailing is close to essential. It will be cheaper and far easier to make/have it made in UK, maybe in conjunction with your stern arch. I suggest you also need an awning. We made ours, it's 3 metres wide and extends from the stern arch to the mast.

We found 50 metres of chain to be enough for most locations but occasionally needed more. We now have 60 metres which so far has always been enough. We do deploy it all from time to time. Windlass is virtually essential, as is all chain. Kedge anchor will be used a lot, as will long lines for taking ashore.

Water can be difficult to find on many islands. Your tankage is not very big so supplement as much as possible with plastic jerry cans.

lindsay
27-08-10, 10:25
I have lived full time in the Mediterranean for the last 13 years, single handed, on my Sadler 29. I made, literally, no changes before leaving the UK except getting a full service for the engine and the rigging tested.

While tempted by the canal route ( long keel version, draught 1.2 metres) I decided I wanted to get here as soon as possible. This entailed crossing the Channel from Dover to Calais, spending 10 pleasant days in the inner marina, and making phone calls to the three major French companies who offer yacht transportion. All are reliable and used to dealing with "foreigners". In 1997 it cost me 750GBP and my unguaranteed guess would be that now it would be double that....still maybe worth considering since three days after taking down the mast in Calais, I picked the boat up in Hyeres, France and the next day was anchored off the delightful island of Porquerolles.

I have added many, many items since arriving, some extremely useful, some "ho-hum", and some quite useless. You will get a lot of good advice on this site, but remember these items to be added are what OTHERS deem necessary, and are NOT necessarily your own priorities.

When you get nearer to your exciting project feel free to get in touch: medliveaboard@hotmail.com.

Cheers

Peter

Slow_boat
27-08-10, 10:36
Stern arch for supporting solar panels/bimini/boom tent/aerials is something I've been thinking of for some time. Anyone got any pictures/drawings that may be of assistance in design?

BTW, the reason we're not looking at more modern boats is that we've chartered in the Med a few times (Bavaria and Jeneau) and what is called a 'double stern cabin' turns out to be a cramped, hot berth under the cockpit that you have to clamber over the head of to get into. We're getting to creaky for that!

highandry
27-08-10, 10:55
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/highandry_photos/smilies%20and%20avatars/scaredsmiley.gif Noooo! You're gonna die without a fridge, air conditioning,water maker, satellite comms, 18x 12 volt batteries and...a chrome plated Rochna. You have been warned..stay home mate. :D :D

Tranona
27-08-10, 11:22
BTW, the reason we're not looking at more modern boats is that we've chartered in the Med a few times (Bavaria and Jeneau) and what is called a 'double stern cabin' turns out to be a cramped, hot berth under the cockpit that you have to clamber over the head of to get into. We're getting to creaky for that!

Fair point. All part of the compromise and a trade off for the big cockpit and walk through. They usually have good forecabins though - better than most older centre cockpits where the forecabins are often cramped because the saloon is pushed so far forward.

At the top end of your budget, but have a look at the 1999-2001 Bavaria 38 Ocean which has a huge island berth in the aft cabin and good stern platform. Not many about, but quite popular with liveaboards in the Med. Slightly smaller and a bit cheaper is the Beneteau 36cc. More of those around and a good compromise.

BobnLesley
27-08-10, 11:44
... The idea is to see if we really like it and if we do, figure what we require from our long-term cruising boat...

We did exactly this in 2003, setting off in a 27' Albin Vega. On the day we moved onboard, the longest period that we'd spent full-time on our boat was eight days and we were concerned about spending £40,000 on a 'proper' cruising yacht only to discover after three months that we didn't like it. The theory was, that if we could enjoy/cope with living on the Vega, for the first summer, we would then invest in something bigger/better before heading further afield.

This 'plan' has only failed in one respect: Whilst we've now reached Turkey, by way of Biscay and the Iberian Peninsula and have looked at lots of bigger yachts along the way, we're still unable to find a sensibly priced yacht which we consider to be better than Spring Fever, so we're still sailing around on a twenty-seven footer!

Slow_boat
27-08-10, 12:30
Tranona;
I really, really wish you hadn't suggested the Beneteau 36CC.

I googled, found a 1998 one in Port Napoleon for 65k (euro) and am now fighting the urge to make an offer subject to survey! Swmbo's already picking cushions andmaterial for the curtains. Anyone know how much berthing for the winter would be? :-)

BobnLesley
Help keep my feet on the ground! What advantages are there to a smaller boat? There must be some or you'd have bought a big boat by now.

bromleybysea
27-08-10, 12:52
I think the "try it with what you've got" approach is very sound. I have done an extended Atlantic circuit and thousands of miles otherwise in a Rustler 31, which I guess is about the same volume as a Sadler 29, perhaps a bit less. I have also chartered various AWBs in the Med and elsewhere, including the larger Bavarias. I had the same sort of choice last year, with a pension lump sum in my pocket and retirement looming- sell the current boat and trade-up for something bigger, or spend the money on the Rustler and keep her. I decided on the latter. It might not be everyone's choice, but you might find that in your current boat it is just fine.

Bajansailor
27-08-10, 13:16
Another possible boat to consider (if you do decide to move up in size a bit) could be a Hunter 376 - they are very ergonomic and ideal for living on in hot climates, and there is a reasonably accessible double berth aft.
Here is one for sale in the BVIs - http://www.bviyachtsales.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2238970&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=bviyachtsales&&ywo=bviyachtsales&

And here is a slightly different model (the 380) for sale in Greece - http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Hunter-380--1864044/Greece

There is also a 376 for sale on Yachtworld - it is from 1997, and is in Cyprus, but they are asking GBP 95k for her......

Slow_boat
27-08-10, 13:30
Please stop doing this to me! ;-)

I'm trying so hard, and failing, to keep my feet on the ground !

We're off sailing this weekend. Swmbo and I are going to have to have serious words.

Monique
27-08-10, 16:57
Good luck with your plans.

If it was me... I would consider a 2 cabin boat. The Bav 37 comes to mind and having sailed both the shallow draft and the deep keel/tall rig, I would opt for the tall rig. They sail better than Jeanneau 36's in my humble opinion. Very well balance and surprizing quick.

I live in Majorca and my boat has:

- large bimini
- large spray hood for winter
- large tent (mast to the bimini)
- large wind scoop for the forward hatch
- 3 large house batteries
- solar panel
- large (energy guzzling) fridge

No heating except a 1200 w shore power based radiant heater.

BobnLesley
27-08-10, 17:30
"BobnLesley Help keep my feet on the ground! What advantages are there to a smaller boat?"

Below is an article that I wrote about three years ago, my thoughts/option haven't changed much since:

Does Size Really Matter? – The thoughts of a Low Tech, Low Cost, Liveaboard

With limited funds and experience but an abundance of hope and expectation; we decided to give the Cruising Lifestyle a lash and having travelled extensively by motorcycle some years ago, have found that many of the lessons learned then were transferable; not least our belief that if you’re comfortable with what you’ve already got; then stick with it! Any perceived gains in buying something which the ‘experts’ might deem more ‘suitable’ are likely to be more than offset by the inevitable cost of making the change, the aggravation of having to learn the idiosyncrasies in both operating and maintaining your new boat and the potential for despair in finding the underlying reason for it’s having been put up for sale in the first place – what you’ve got may not be perfect, but it’s foibles are unlikely to provide any nasty surprises and as our experiences have shown, many of the pre-conceptions we held at the outset haven’t stood the test of time: -

Accepted wisdom appears to be that for a couple to undertake an extended cruise, you need an 11 metre plus yacht with all the bells and whistles; which even very second hand is likely to cost £40k and upwards. Whereas if you’re afloat in something smaller and simpler; for much less than £25k (our Albin Vega, including the upgrades we made stands us at about £12500, plus a bit of labour) the balance will provide a very substantial cruising fund in itself to which you can add further substantial and fairly obvious ongoing savings, in your insurance, mooring and maintenance costs.

‘A bigger boat would be safer and more comfortable in heavy weather’ – Partly true perhaps; though having now had the experience of sailing on several much larger boats, some of which we’d be loathe to take very far from a secure harbour in anything but the most benign weather; we’ve decided that this is far from an absolute truth. In reality, when the seas are short and steep, all yachts are uncomfortable; it’s just a matter of degree and as we along with 99% of long term cruisers tend to stay put when the weather’s bad anyway; it’s also largely irrelevant. One of the great joys in this lifestyle is that we’re no longer obliged to push a dodgy weather forecast to get back to our home port by Sunday evening and on the odd occasion when we are caught out by an unexpected blow; it’s much easier for the small crew to reduce sail and safely handle a smaller yacht anyway. The more common problem which we cruisers endure is in trying to make progress in light winds and again it’s easier for us to hoist and safely handle a cruising chute or spinnaker than for the bigger yachts: therefore we do it more readily and so spend more time with the engine off – increasing our pleasure and further reducing costs.

‘A bigger boat would provide space for visitors’ – Certainly true but again largely irrelevant. Whilst we had lots of friends and family advising of their intention to join us for a holiday, before we set off; there have been very few who’ve actually made it and conversations with other cruisers indicate that this is the norm. The sailors amongst those who’ve visited seem more than happy to ‘squeeze up’ for a few days and for non/occasional sailors, it makes for better harmony on both sides if they stay in a hotel and just day sail anyway. It’s only the larger yachts which appear to accommodate visitors regularly and this often appears to be primarily because the regular crew want/need some outside assistance to comfortably sail their boat; especially when there’s an extended passage to be made. An additional consideration which we’ve noticed is that the most common reason for boats sitting around for extended periods in unexciting/expensive marinas or perhaps more seriously, in pressing-on despite unpleasant weather; are their attempts to co-ordinate their cruise with the holiday plans of their visitors. On a day to day level, we’ve hosted a dinner party for seven and drinks parties for a dozen-or-so on our twenty-seven footer; if there’s any more than that, well the odds are that at least one of the guests will have a bigger boat; so just relocate the party to theirs instead!

‘A bigger boat would have a proper shower’ – Do any; other than Super-Yachts? Our experience is that in marinas, almost all yachties use the shore-side facilities and even at anchor, a large majority of those with below-deck facilities still use either a solar shower bag or cold water-deck shower. Why? Because boat showers appear high on the list of items which break-down and even when serviceable, the effort of cleaning/drying out the heads compartment and bilges afterwards is often not worth the benefit. Whilst the cockpit option might not provide the same degree of privacy, we’ve found that we and others are willing and able to look the other way for a few minutes. Even on days when there’s no solar gain to be had, a kettle full of hot water added to your shower bag works just as well and if we occasionally feel that the weather is just too unpleasant to bare all in the cockpit, well we obviously weren’t in such serious need of a shower as we’d first thought!

‘A bigger boat has more storage space’ – Again, our experience shows us that this is far from true in practice. Besides which, a truism we found on motorcycles and which is even easier to apply on the boat, is that the amount of gear you think you need will fit into the available space, any excess is only due to the gear which you think you want. Having started with that basic premise, and then reviewed what you actually use, you will find that most of the stuff you thought that you wanted and even some of that which you thought you needed, is surplus to requirements – so dump it. At which point you’ll find that everything you actually need and want, will fit easily into the available stowage space. Which items fall into which category you must decide for yourself on our part we’ve found that folding bicycles fell from a need, to a want, until having realised that we’d used them only twice last summer, dropped them firmly in the ‘thought we wanted’ category – they were last seen in a Spanish boatyard. Conversely, we’ve met one couple, on a relatively small yacht, for whom a karaoke machine is a need and we can’t fault their reasons for carrying it. A surprise has perhaps been that on yachts of all sizes, we’re one of the few to put ‘real’ wine glasses firmly into the need category, though I wasn’t surprised to learn that we’re not the only yacht whose dinghy outboard won’t get replaced when it dies.

Beyond the fairly obvious economic benefits of berthing a smaller yacht which I mentioned earlier; we’ve also discovered a less obvious advantage in this area too. Because the majority of cruising yachts are in the 11/12 metre range, this is where the greatest pressure is felt in securing high season/weekend visitors berths; whereas only three times in three years (three in seven years now) and to be fair one of those was Monte Carlo; have we been turned away from our chosen destination. In raft-up situations too, we are positively welcomed, insofar as we won’t put much load on the inner boat and being small, are less likely to have further yachts tag onto the outside of us. Similarly in even the most crowded of anchorages, we’ve been able to find space by carefully manoeuvring inshore of our larger neighbours and even gained the added advantage of being better sheltered and closer to the beach/dinghy landing.

‘A bigger boat would have a proper galley’ - The only items which we felt Spring Fever lacked were an oven and a fridge, though perhaps not surprisingly, the further south we sailed the less we’ve needed the former and the more important has become the latter. Having been recommended a ‘skillet pan’ (I can’t remember who makes them, but they always have a stand at the Boat Shows) the oven question was quickly sorted: they are brilliant! I occassionally bake bread in it and Lesley’s been known to use ours even when we’re at home during the winter with a full set of domestic appliances to choose from. The fridge we built ourselves; using a Waeco compressor and plate, bespoke stainless steel box and lots of insulation. As a result of the last in particular, we have to date managed far better performance and reliability than many of the boat-builder fitted units which we’ve seen on larger yachts.

‘A bigger boat has standing-headroom’ - This is perhaps a cheat as we’re both under 5’ 9” tall so the Vega affords us that too, but there are plenty of other small yachts out there too which can match or even better it. The Nicholson 26, Halcyon 27 and Elizabethans (The 31footer really is a Tardis) all spring immediately to mind as being sensibly sized/priced and capable of taking you anywhere. If you’re less interested in performance and aesthetics then the Pembroke, Longbow, etc. stable of Westerly 31’s seem good value too. I know I ought and would apologise for not having placed the 26’ Westerly Centaur very firmly into this list too: but despite fulfilling all of our requirements it’s just so damned ugly!

Tranona
27-08-10, 18:40
Tranona;
I really, really wish you hadn't suggested the Beneteau 36CC.

I googled, found a 1998 one in Port Napoleon for 65k (euro) and am now fighting the urge to make an offer subject to survey! Swmbo's already picking cushions andmaterial for the curtains. Anyone know how much berthing for the winter would be? :-)



Sorrry! and perhaps I should not tell you about the two Bavaria 38 Oceans in Spain - both under 80k Euros!

This brings up a new issue. Do you buy a boat in UK and take it out to the med or buy one already there?

If the journey there is part of the attraction - the 2 year slow wandering around the outside or the one year meander through the canals then obviously you get a boat here (or use your existing) Downside is the cost of modifications to turn an English Channel boat into a Med boat and the constraints on boat type, although that is not a big problem if you have under 1.6m draft.

The alternative is to buy a boat there so that you can be sailing in the sunshine straight away. Advantages are that the boat will already be equipped appropriately and may come with access to a berth if this is important. Downside is buying at a distance, getting work done if needed and of course a different choice of boat (generally). But the market at the moment is flat, and even with the lower value of the £ there are some real bargains. The two Bavarias are typically on offer at 20% less than 3 years ago.

We went for a variation of the second method. SWMBO does not like English Channel type sailing but fell for the Med after a couple of chartering holidays. I worked out that, provided we had at least two weeks a year, it was cheaper to own a charter boat than rent it. So we bought one and had 9 years good use. The original idea was to do the trip back through the canals and then sell her here. For various reasons we did not do the full trip by water, but we do have a very nice fully paid for Bavaria 37 in our mooring in Poole and hopefully will get a couple of seasons use before AD catches up and we sell her.

If you had offered me £45k last year for my boat in Corfu, I would have given serious consideration. There are plenty of similar boats both private and ex charter available at really good prices. Pays your money and takes your choice!

vyv_cox
29-08-10, 17:05
A bigger boat has more storage space’ – Again, our experience shows us that this is far from true in practice. Besides which, a truism we found on motorcycles and which is even easier to apply on the boat, is that the amount of gear you think you need will fit into the available space, any excess is only due to the gear which you think you want. Having started with that basic premise, and then reviewed what you actually use, you will find that most of the stuff you thought that you wanted and even some of that which you thought you needed, is surplus to requirements – so dump it. At which point you’ll find that everything you actually need and want, will fit easily into the available stowage space.

Whilst partly agreeing with some of your points, I do think there is a lower limit of what needs to be accommodated. Musing on your post I tried to recall what we keep in our stern locker and what we might manage to do without. Here's the list:

Kedge anchor and 50 metres of warp, 7 metres of chain
25 litre water container that feeds the shower
2 x 15 litre water containers for tank filling
1 x 10 litre container of diesel for emergencies
5 litres engine oil
5 litres outboard fuel
Pela oilchange pump (the round one, about the size of the 10 litre container)
5 litre deionised water container
Winter cockpit cover
Large bag of winter layup halyards
30 metres of heavy rope
3 x buckets
Deck wash brush
2 x water hoses
2 x electric cables
Gas barbecue
Bag of snorkel gear (2 sets fins, masks, snorkels, shortie wetsuit, marker buoy)

There may be a few items I have forgotten but not much I could do without. The stern locker on a Sadler 34 is not huge, but it is definitely bigger than the equivalent on a 29. There is also an Eberspacher in there, not used much recently.

PlanB
29-08-10, 18:26
A bigger boat has somewhere to esape to.
When we were looking for our first boat with a view to ending up in the Med, we were advised to get the biggest possible so we didn't end up killing each other. We took the advice and are still happily living aboard, but for us it matters that we can retreat to our own quiet corner from time to time.

Tranona
29-08-10, 22:24
A bigger boat has somewhere to esape to.
When we were looking for our first boat with a view to ending up in the Med, we were advised to get the biggest possible so we didn't end up killing each other. We took the advice and are still happily living aboard, but for us it matters that we can retreat to our own quiet corner from time to time.

My sentiments exactly. Some people are quite happy living in close proximity to others with the minimu "clutter" around them. We like the option of having our private space - plus the fact that at 6'3" and weight to go with it, confined spaces are not a good idea!

In some ways I admire people who can live in a minimalist way whether on land or at sea, but it is not for me.

pragmatist
01-09-10, 17:42
We loved our Sadler 29 though we found it a bit cramped for more than a week or so - but perhaps you are tidier than us ! It came with a "vertical-style" windlass which worked well and didn't take up too much foredeck. We had, I believe, 5 or 10m of chain and then 20-30m of warp which worked well and we anchored a lot (though mostly in shallow water on the East Coast). We now have all chain on our Rival 41 and really need the electric anchor winch to handle it so I would be interested to know why vyv cox regards all chain as essential. I wonder in a boat of the weight of the Sadler if such a lot of chain in the bow would affect her balance. But it may be, since I know nothing about Med mooring, that vyv has excellent reasons for the all chain recommendation.

I would also have thought that the twin-skin of the Sadler would help keep her cool - it certainly helped us keep warmer than the previous or subsequent boat tho, having a bimini I can see would be a must. We are currently considering changing the forward-facing windows on the sprayhood to zip-out ones to allow shade but a through draught. Might be worth a thought.

Ours had a 15 gallon flexible water tank and hand-pump only with no water heating. We currently have pressurised water (so it is easy to be wasteful), 150 gallons in 2 fixed tanks, calorifier and immersion heater. Given the limited space on the Sadler I wonder, barring the port side of the forecabin (our tank was starboard side) where you could fit more water. I love having hot water and it maybe, given the price of gas, that using kettles to heat water would be more expensive than a calorifier.

Anyway I wish you a wonderful time in a wonderful boat (still look at Sadler 29s with a very fond eye).

P

vyv_cox
02-09-10, 09:05
We now have all chain on our Rival 41 and really need the electric anchor winch to handle it so I would be interested to know why vyv cox regards all chain as essential. I wonder in a boat of the weight of the Sadler if such a lot of chain in the bow would affect her balance. But it may be, since I know nothing about Med mooring, that vyv has excellent reasons for the all chain recommendation.

I would also have thought that the twin-skin of the Sadler would help keep her cool - it certainly helped us keep warmer than the previous or subsequent boat tho, having a bimini I can see would be a must. We are currently considering changing the forward-facing windows on the sprayhood to zip-out ones to allow shade but a through draught. Might be worth a thought.

We have all-chain for a number of reasons, the first being stability at anchor. Boats on rope warps tend to move around to a far greater extent than those on all chain, for example in a small windshift the rope boats will be moving well before the chain ones, and collisions can occur. The second is behaviour of the boat in strong winds. All boats tend to sail around the anchor to some extent but those on rope do so far more. This constant movement through up to 180 degrees puts a good deal of stress on the anchor, increasing its tendency to drag or break out.

This is the third one

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/vyvcox/P1010205.jpg

With stern-to berthing there is a strong likelihood that another boat will get your warp around his prop. (see the Italian thread currently running!) This mobo has my rope lazy line around his. The man at the dinghy has a carving knife in his hand and was all set to cut the rope if I had not stopped him. If I had not been on board at the time he would have cut it and gone, leaving me free to smash against the wall or another boat. I have seen a chain around the prop of another boat but at least cutting it was out of the question.

So far as the insulation on the Sadler is concerned, unfortunately there is none in the deck, so the blazing sun causes the interior to get just as hot as any other, similarly constructed boat. In this respect there are many boats, with balsa or foam-cored decks, that would be cooler.

pragmatist
02-09-10, 10:39
Vyv - don't dispute the bit about the problems of warp with stern-to mooring - not something you get a lot of on the East Coast. And yes you do wander around more with chain and warp - but in many years of anchoring the Sadler, sometimes in busy anchorages, we did not come to grief. The style of windlass we had coped with both chain and warp so it may be something they can consider changing later if they choose.

red beard
06-09-10, 15:26
I have sailed the med for a few years and would say unless you can afford to stay in marinas all the time the only thing to worry about is power. Get a generator (controversial I know) and 3 times as many solar panels as you think you will need. I specialise in helping people prepare for long distance cruising so give me a pm if you need anything.

somerset
11-09-10, 11:46
I would not worry too much about gear.I would strongly recommend cruising the Channel for a season to see how you and your SWMBO get on in a confined space.We did that and found it was not a problem for us on our Kelt 850 so we laid her up,spent the winter in rented accommodation in Spain(did a bit of recceing in a hire car),came back to the UK and went for it via the canals.This also had the benefit of allowing us to see how we coped as a couple living abroad (sounds silly perhaps but there is a world of difference between a few weeks holiday and an extended stay).

As well as allowing you to dip a toe in the liveaboard water you may well gain an idea of what sort of boat you want.

We did not have a fridge which was a major pain so if it is practical to fit one on your 29 footer then it would be as well to do it.

If you decide to go south an awning is a must as is a bimini of some sort (we had a large parasol designed to swing from the back stay which we bought in France.It packed away like a small tent and could be adjusted to allow for the movemenet of the sun relative to the course steered,left the cockpit uncluttered when stowed and saved weight.

One thing you might wish to look at is your cooker which is probaly going to get a lot of use unless you eat ashore a lot.We had to buy a new one and it was more expensive than in the UK.

A large pressure cooker saves on gas and means you can cook you spuds and veg all in one go.

A small gas barbecue is a must IMHO since cooking down below is unpleasant in the Med.

Beyond that a plank ( 2 for fendering in the canals) and as a passarelle in the med.

IMHO it is as well to work out what you need as you go along rather then try to anticipate that sort of thing.

If you are going via the canals you will most likely meet someone on the Seine coming the other way who will be looking to offload his mooring stakes along with advice on stopping places etc.

Just give it a go as soon as you can.You never now what is round the corner!

There are plenty of chandlers etc about and I found the service much better than most places in the UK.

Slow_boat
13-09-10, 12:45
Thanks for all the answers, folks.

Having spent this season cruising for a couple of weeks and weekends, I have found I can't keep swmbo off the boat! Trouble is, she keeps wanting to go out on a gale just for the fun(?) of it. As I've told her, been there seen it done it and got the T shirt, we've nothing to prove and any fool can be cold wet and frightened.

We are very at ease in each others company and don't need other people and she's even becoming a useful hand on the boat. The first few seasons were like single handing with a passenger. We're used to camping and biking so don't need much to stay happy and sane.

Seeing as we don't intend doing much more than day hops, I reckon we don't need much more than the cruising gear we've got at present, updated, plus navtext, a couple of planks and a bimini. We should be able to get food shopping for fresh stuff every few days, so no problem there. Not sure where I'd fit a fridge compresser anyway, the fuel tank takes up the fore end of the cockpit locker. A couple of flexi solar panels can lay on deck or the upturned dinghy for power (I worked out for 2x 85 ) if we do find somewhere to put a fridge.

So, the feet are back on the ground, we'll go in what we've got for three months then hope to find somewhere cheap to leave the boat on the Atlantic coast of Spain or Portugal, and re-evaluate needs and wants.

Thanks, all.

lindsay
13-09-10, 16:22
A hidden benenfit with the Sadler 29 is that you can fix a flexible, but permanent, 40 watt solar panel just forward of the instrument console on that flat bit under the boom. This keeps everything going during daytime (ie instruments and autopilot) and any lights at night, but then I do not have a refrigerator. All you have to do to dispense with this pain in the neck is to train your taste buds to drink tepid drinks and train your biceps to row ashore for fresh produce - this of course in the Mediterranean, not crossing an ocean.

If on the very occasional times that people do actually come on board, shove in some ice cubes into the Sadler "icebox".

somerset
15-09-10, 13:32
A hidden benenfit with the Sadler 29 is that you can fix a flexible, but permanent, 40 watt solar panel just forward of the instrument console on that flat bit under the boom. This keeps everything going during daytime (ie instruments and autopilot) and any lights at night, but then I do not have a refrigerator. All you have to do to dispense with this pain in the neck is to train your taste buds to drink tepid drinks and train your biceps to row ashore for fresh produce - this of course in the Mediterranean, not crossing an ocean.

If on the very occasional times that people do actually come on board, shove in some ice cubes into the Sadler "icebox".

That is what we did but if you like spreads or cheese etc it can mean you end up chucking stuff away.We solved the milk situation by buying powdered - a habit that we have kept to this day - and only buying small portions.In the Med in winter those parts of the sidelockers below the water line were usually adequate for keeping things fresh for a few days same as most of the year in the UK.

The weight and lack of space for an extra battery,upgraded alternator/solar panels etc etc on our Kelt meant we never got round to fitting a fridge.But it was a deal breaker in deciding what our next boat would have been.