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View Full Version : Anyone got advice about fitting heater plugs to an old engine that's never had them.



stuhaynes
20-10-10, 20:23
Has any one got experience of the effectiveness of fitting glow plugs to an engine that's never had them?

My own engine is a 60 years Coventry Godiva, 4 cyl diesel rated at 30 HP. This engine has a 'rich' position on the injector pump, but this doesn't seem to do much. There are 2 other alternatives available to me. The first is the oil cups, one per cylinder, which you remove, fill with oil and invert into their positions. I don't like using these because of the volume of smoke they produce. I haven't used these for the last 8 years since I converted the electrics to 24 volts, simply because of the speed the engine turns at with the starter, I don't want to cause damage. The last option in cold weather is a squirt of easy start.

I know that generally heater plugs work within the combustion chamber area. This is probably not possible with my engine, but I could drill and tap the inlet manifold.

Just wondering if anyone has done this and whether it was successful.

All advice very welcome as always.

sailorman
20-10-10, 20:27
Has any one got experience of the effectiveness of fitting glow plugs to an engine that's never had them?

My own engine is a 60 years Coventry Godiva, 4 cyl diesel rated at 30 HP. This engine has a 'rich' position on the injector pump, but this doesn't seem to do much. There are 2 other alternatives available to me. The first is the oil cups, one per cylinder, which you remove, fill with oil and invert into their positions. I don't like using these because of the volume of smoke they produce. I haven't used these for the last 8 years since I converted the electrics to 24 volts, simply because of the speed the engine turns at with the starter, I don't want to cause damage. The last option in cold weather is a squirt of easy start.

I know that generally heater plugs work within the combustion chamber area. This is probably not possible with my engine, but I could drill and tap the inlet manifold.

Just wondering if anyone has done this and whether it was successful.

All advice very welcome as always.

The perkie 4108 had a flame device in the inlet manifold

stuhaynes
20-10-10, 20:33
The perkie 4108 had a flame device in the inlet manifold

Thanks Sailorman

I know that that would work as I've started ours with a blowlamp before now. I'd just like to fit something that'll work by pressing a button on the dash....

sailorman
20-10-10, 20:35
Thanks Sailorman

I know that that would work as I've started ours with a blowlamp before now. I'd just like to fit something that'll work by pressing a button on the dash....

that could be adapted

Ceejay
20-10-10, 20:52
Hi
I fitted a heater plug in the inlet manifold of the Standard 23c engine fitted to my tractor. Diesel from the tank is fed through the heater plug and drips on to the heated coil. This works well, but timing is critical, as if it is allowed to heat for too long the diesel cools the coil and lots of smoke from the exhaust is the result, but no ignition.
Here is a link to a page which has the part for sale. The cost is 8.50. It is the second to last item on the page.

http://www.smltractorparts.co.uk/search.php?category=4

Hope this helps.
CJ

mtb
20-10-10, 21:02
As you've already read the heater glow plug in the manifold is ideal, I'd fit a small header tank you can fill with diesel connected to the plug with copper tube with a ring in the line and a decent tap. 24volt glow plug which are fitted to many Perkins which is a simple drill and tap take the size of the inlet of your manifold intake get pipe to match, it only needs to be a couple of inches BUT FLAME PROOF attach to your inlet. 35amp cable to decent Lucas push button or ignition switch with pre heat option JOB DONE
Ebay have loads of new glows all the time around 20
I'd prefer not to drill the original but that's just me

cheers
Mick

stuhaynes
20-10-10, 21:15
As you've already read the heater glow plug in the manifold is ideal, I'd fit a small header tank you can fill with diesel connected to the plug with copper tube with a ring in the line and a decent tap. 24volt glow plug which are fitted to many Perkins which is a simple drill and tap take the size of the inlet of your manifold intake get pipe to match, it only needs to be a couple of inches BUT FLAME PROOF attach to your inlet. 35amp cable to decent Lucas push button or ignition switch with pre heat option JOB DONE
Ebay have loads of new glows all the time around 20
I'd prefer not to drill the original but that's just me

cheers
Mick

Thanks to Ceajay and MTB. This is sounding like just what I have in mind. Do you reckon that a single plug is enough? Presumably the plug needs to be fitted as near vertical as possible. I like the idea of a small diesel source above the engine. Presumably the fuel would just be a gravity feed?



Thanks again, Stu

Ceejay
20-10-10, 21:39
The one on my engine is fitted horizontally at exactly 90 degrees to the perpindicular and is gravity fed. As the coil heats it automatically allows fuel to flow. When it is switched off and cools, the fuel supply shuts off.
CJ

pampas
20-10-10, 21:56
Bedford 466 had a coiled air heater fitted (24volt) but still required a fair bit of cranking!!!

stuhaynes
20-10-10, 22:13
The one on my engine is fitted horizontally at exactly 90 degrees to the perpindicular and is gravity fed. As the coil heats it automatically allows fuel to flow. When it is switched off and cools, the fuel supply shuts off.
CJ

Do you reckon that a single one is enough? Or would a couple be better?

Thanks for all the help. Stu

Sophie19
20-10-10, 22:20
One heater is enough on older MF tractors and on my old Perkins 4203 fitted in a landrover. Often though about doing this to my little Yanmar 1GM10. Really can not think of any reason it would not work.

Good luck mate

Ceejay
20-10-10, 22:27
Hi Stu
One works for me but I guess you could try one, and add a second later on if you thought it necessary after trying just one. What cc is your engine. The Standard 23c is I think 2286 or thereabouts. If yours is a similar capacity one would probably be fine.
CJ

stuhaynes
20-10-10, 22:45
Hi Stu
One works for me but I guess you could try one, and add a second later on if you thought it necessary after trying just one. What cc is your engine. The Standard 23c is I think 2286 or thereabouts. If yours is a similar capacity one would probably be fine.
CJ

Yep, we're about 2250cc so very little difference. Is the 23c direct or indirect injection?

Thanks, Stu

Ceejay
20-10-10, 22:47
Indirect

njthake
20-10-10, 23:01
Your starting trouble is lack of compression when cold.
From memory Perkins used to supply a device for the 6354 engine to start with a glow plug in the inlet manifold which introduced fuel at the same time as the glow. This would probably work well.
Your cold start compression is restored temporarilly by the oil injection. This helps the rings make a gas tight seal when they are cold and weak. Your extra fuel device should help if it is working.
You must try to avoid easy start as this becomes addictive because of the damage it causes
I would be inclined to try the Mercedes equivilent of easystart. They had a small container in the engine bay that was connected by a tube to the inlet manifold and topped up periodically. A small pump of this fluid would produce a gentle start in the coldest conditions , importantly, without all the detonation of "ether" induction (easy start) They used it on Unimogs. I am sure a dealer could advise you what it is called. I would think a tin would be expensive at probably 25 but for 5 years cold start it is cheap and easy !

VicMallows
20-10-10, 23:33
You must try to avoid easy start as this becomes addictive because of the damage it causes
I would be inclined to try the Mercedes equivilent of easystart. !

So what do you recon the 'Mercedes equivalent' fluid is ??

Bilgediver
20-10-10, 23:57
So what do you recon the 'Mercedes equivalent' fluid is ??Whatever it is if you have a need then try WD40.. It also works and is much less violent. Mind you it is possibly the propellant that is doing the job!!!

DownWest
21-10-10, 01:24
I had a Perkins 4-108 in a Datsun truck (don't ask) And it had the heating coil with diesel drip, worked fine if all else was in condition. One turned the engine a couple of times to pressurise the system. Pushed the warm button and when the coil was hot it opened a ball valve to release some diesel onto the coil. As said, timing is important, but a bit of practice watching the inlet to see the fumes should help. And it was horizontally mounted in a vertical inlet tube.
A

TQA
21-10-10, 01:28
You only need one.

It is called a CAV Thermostart AND there is one on EBAY

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAV-THERMOSTART-COLD-START-HEATER-/310258964703

7.50 take his hand off at that price.

robp
21-10-10, 18:31
I used to use a hairdrier on a recalcitrant volvo years ago and that was successful. Of course you can't do that all the time and it's not automatic. But as you've got 24V, couldn't you rig up an element and fan with cowling that concentrates warm air right into the intake? No drilling required then.