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jimbaerselman
03-12-10, 12:16
A Cruising Association (CA) member had a very expensive and time wasting experience this May after calling for assistance to enter Patras marina. Greek maritime law provides that, in such a situation, all boats over 10m must be subjected to a survey by a nominated surveyor after any repairs have been carried out. Such surveys have been known to cost from 600 to 3,000, perhaps taking days to arrange, and in some cases involved little more than a half hour trip to sea and back.

Of course, for UK leisure craft such a survey is not required. Skippers alone have responsibility for ensuring the seaworthiness of their craft. It would help all cruising folk enormously if the British Embassy in Athens could be persuaded to state this in a fax or letter to any port police who call for such a survey. Presently, they are only authorised to reply "Greek Requirements Apply".

To make this case, the Cruising Association Regulations & Technical Services (RATS!) division needs more reports from British citizens in charge of British registered boat who have been affected.

So, please, if you have been forced to have a survey in Greece following a tow into harbour or other such incident, or you know someone who has been affected, please get in touch. We would need a diary of events.

PMs welcome, or email me direct j(dot)mysurnamebelow(at)gmail (dot)com

Sybaris
03-12-10, 16:53
It happened to us in May 2006 by Lavrio.

I would gladly share any information you might need.

Cheers,
Per

rtboss1
03-12-10, 18:38
A Cruising Association (CA) member had a very expensive and time wasting experience this May after calling for assistance to enter Patras marina. Greek maritime law provides that, in such a situation, all boats over 10m must be subjected to a survey by a nominated surveyor after any repairs have been carried out. Such surveys have been known to cost from €600 to €3,000, perhaps taking days to arrange, and in some cases involved little more than a half hour trip to sea and back.

Of course, for UK leisure craft such a survey is not required. Skippers alone have responsibility for ensuring the seaworthiness of their craft. It would help all cruising folk enormously if the British Embassy in Athens could be persuaded to state this in a fax or letter to any port police who call for such a survey. Presently, they are only authorised to reply "Greek Requirements Apply".

To make this case, the Cruising Association Regulations & Technical Services (RATS!) division needs more reports from British citizens in charge of British registered boat who have been affected.

So, please, if you have been forced to have a survey in Greece following a tow into harbour or other such incident, or you know someone who has been affected, please get in touch. We would need a diary of events.

PMs welcome, or email me direct j(dot)mysurnamebelow(at)gmail (dot)com


Hi Jim

Yes I had a lot of costs incurred when I was dis masted 2 years ago. 680euro to start then days of hassle getting the boat back after police impounded it .After the work was completed had to then get another survey to have it put back in the water 2000euro in Lavrio ..Never. never! call for help in Greece if you you are in trouble

r_h
03-12-10, 22:58
It also happened to me in 2004 after dismasting off Kefallonia - we didn't even ask for, or receive help - although the coastguard boat was sent out to escort us, we cleared up the rig and made it into Argostoli under our own power.

Sounds like I was lucky - the survey cost (only) 300 euros, but the guy didn't even get out of his car. He was happy just to see a boat, with a mast, that I claimed to be mine.

Will pm more details when I have time after the weekend.

jimbaerselman
04-12-10, 12:00
Hey, that's great guys.

Please email me as accurately as you can, and with as much as you feel comfortable telling me, with:

Your name, name of boat, date of survey and port of survey, confirming you are British citizens, in a British registered boat.

With hard data the Cruising Association can then get to work on the appropriate ministries!

noelex
04-12-10, 12:30
An Australian friend of mine got a rope around his prop.
Called a mayday and was towed in by a private boat. The compulsory survey cost (from memory ) about 1000 euro. The surveyor took 10 mins and never even steeped on board.
Not a British subject so probably not directly relevant, but does back up the other claims.

The rule has the unwanted effect that, with the costs involved, boat owners may be reluctant to call for help at an early stage. Not a good policy IMHO and one that has the potential to cost lives.

lenseman
04-12-10, 12:36
Well, I will say it, even if no one else does.

Well done Jim and thank you for pushing this problem forward to the relevant authorities. ;)

noelex
04-12-10, 12:45
Well, I will say it, even if no one else does.

Well done Jim and thank you for pushing this problem forward to the relevant authorities. ;)

Well said. Thanks for all your efforts Jim

CharlesSwallow
05-12-10, 15:00
Come on you Hellenofiles, come on tell me that I should embrace all this lovely "Greekness"!

I only keep my boat there because it is cheap and the weather is good. I have no particular love of the people above any other race, nor below any other race for that matter.
This and other previous scams like cruising taxes goes to prove that we should all "Beware Greeks." They are just out to grab as much of anyone's cash as they can.

I doubt if our government and it's wimpish leaders give a toss about this and I doubt that the CA will be successful in changing the corrupt activities of SOME of the Port Police in any way.

My advice to anyone involved like this with PP exceeding their authority is to contact the British Embassy in Athens. I did this some years ago when a PP in Katakolon exceeded his authority to my disadvantage. Within half an hour of an embassy officer intervening, a PP district commander hot footed it to Katakolon, had a few stern words to his subordinates and me and my boat were released forthwith with his apologies and assurance that this would not happen again. We parted with him expressing his hopes that the incident hadn't spoiled my enjoyment of his country and that I would soon visit katakolon again. I have, many times with no further incident.

Chas

charles_reed
06-12-10, 10:56
Come on you Hellenofiles, come on tell me that I should embrace all this lovely "Greekness"!

I only keep my boat there because it is cheap and the weather is good. I have no particular love of the people above any other race, nor below any other race for that matter.
This and other previous scams like cruising taxes goes to prove that we should all "Beware Greeks." They are just out to grab as much of anyone's cash as they can.

I doubt if our government and it's wimpish leaders give a toss about this and I doubt that the CA will be successful in changing the corrupt activities of SOME of the Port Police in any way.

My advice to anyone involved like this with PP exceeding their authority is to contact the British Embassy in Athens. I did this some years ago when a PP in Katakolon exceeded his authority to my disadvantage. Within half an hour of an embassy officer intervening, a PP district commander hot footed it to Katakolon, had a few stern words to his subordinates and me and my boat were released forthwith with his apologies and assurance that this would not happen again. We parted with him expressing his hopes that the incident hadn't spoiled my enjoyment of his country and that I would soon visit katakolon again. I have, many times with no further incident.

Chas
Charles,
Besides using a spellcheck, you should stand for EuroParliament, you'll be able to do much to halt the flood of Eurolegislation by all these WEPs threatening our british way of life!!
;-)

I''ll leave you all to work out what WEP stands for.

jimbaerselman
06-12-10, 13:05
and I doubt that the CA will be successful in changing the corrupt activities of SOME of the Port Police in any way.

Speaking on behalf of the CA now.

Well, we've had a number of successes this year, to do with one off taxes and to do with 30 days grace between booking in.

Indeed, this will not change "corrupt activities". Mainly because there is no current evidence that corrupt activities exist. All "corruption" accusations so far received by us have been shown to be mis-understandings.

Mis-understandings arise because Greece does not publish a clear English language guidance as to how yachts are required to conduct themselves in Greek waters. That is the problem. Not corruption. We're working on it.


My advice to anyone involved like this with PP exceeding their authority is to contact the British Embassy in Athens. Our advice too. But we're also working to help the Embassy give more helpful replies.

And many thanks to all those who have sent us pm's, emails, encouragement and personal reports. With evidence, we can make a difference, though it does take time.

noelex
06-12-10, 18:22
I think this thread may give some the wrong impression of the Greek people.
I have found them honest and helpful.
Experiences like a shopkeeper running out of a store to repay money that he inadvertently overcharged, or someone offering their car keys so you could drive their car to get to the supermarket.
Try to walk with a heavy load any distance. The Greek people will stop their car and offer a lift.
I am ashamed to say such offers would not be made in my community.
Their bureaucracy is not always sensible, but the people, at least in the islands, are always willing to help a stranger.

rtboss1
06-12-10, 18:32
I think this thread may give some the wrong impression of the Greek people.
I have found them honest and helpful.
Experiences like a shopkeeper running out of a store to repay money that he inadvertently overcharged, or someone offering their car keys so you could drive their car to get to the supermarket.
Try to walk with a heavy load any distance. The Greek people will stop their car and offer a lift.
I am ashamed to say such offers would not be made in my community.
Their bureaucracy is not always sensible, but the people, at least in the islands, are always willing to help a stranger.


Hi
I agree with your post, never had a corrupt port policeman. Cannot say the same about Olympic Marine in Lavrio though.

Chris_Robb
06-12-10, 18:38
I think this thread may give some the wrong impression of the Greek people.
I have found them honest and helpful.
Experiences like a shopkeeper running out of a store to repay money that he inadvertently overcharged, or someone offering their car keys so you could drive their car to get to the supermarket.
Try to walk with a heavy load any distance. The Greek people will stop their car and offer a lift.
I am ashamed to say such offers would not be made in my community.
Their bureaucracy is not always sensible, but the people, at least in the islands, are always willing to help a stranger.

I agree with you, but the bureaucracy..... We were very lucky this year when we were towed into Messolonghi but were not noticed by the port police - bust starter motor.

michaelchapman
10-12-10, 23:03
I agree with you, but the bureaucracy..... We were very lucky this year when we were towed into Messolonghi but were not noticed by the port police - bust starter motor.

Would that be a Yanmar?

Got the tshirt for that this year. Seems to be a common thing with Yanmars. Mine went up in flames and had to be put out with a fire extinquisher. Nobody wanted to tow us, so we sailed into port and onto the berth in Mallorca.

Chris_Robb
11-12-10, 08:12
Would that be a Yanmar?

Got the tshirt for that this year. Seems to be a common thing with Yanmars. Mine went up in flames and had to be put out with a fire extinquisher. Nobody wanted to tow us, so we sailed into port and onto the berth in Mallorca.

No - a Volvo 2003T. The gears inside (annulus ring) stripped when I mistakenly pressed the starter motor and my finger slipped off the button. I then immediately pressed it again - and there was a dreadful crunch noise. Apparently what happens is the engine is settling back from TDC from the first jab, and the starter engages again with the engine still setting backwards - the rest is history. A local mechanic in Messolonghi mended it 6 hours...... Operator error - but its an accident waiting to happen. The starter motor is the type with a fork/solenoid that forces the drive gear into the flywheel.

tri39
11-12-10, 11:28
My Yanmar 2GM20 starter motor has refused to co-operate several times. But it has always responded to cleaning and retightening especially of the heavy duty cable. Moisture and corrosion will prevent the high current getting through. I did once attempt an internal clean and lubricate as well. In fact with an older engine it's worth doing every spring!
neither myself or my beefier crew can start it by hand.
In the past I have twice towed other yachts some distance to a harbour, amazingly on both occasions they neglected to thank us!! Concern for international relations prevents me from revealing their nationality!