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dancrane
24-03-11, 14:14
Is Helena C, ex-Malcolm Miller, still moored-up without her masts, in the west country?

I saw her (or it could have been the Winston Churchill) mid-Solent in October 1994. Pics I've seen of her, post-refurbishment, were fantastic.

Then I heard there was a fire, and...no news since. That was maybe 18 months back though. I hope they'll get her sailing again.

philip_stevens
24-03-11, 18:11
Before I laid up for the winter, we took one last trip up the Fal, and she was moored up at Tolverne/Smugglers Cottage - just up from the King Harry ferry - alongside the Windsor Castle .

dancrane
24-03-11, 19:45
Thanks for that...I'm mainly curious about what's happened to both these classic training ships. Before the set-back, the vessel which the 40 y/o Malcolm Miller had become, was as glamorously converted for Riviera life as any swish new super-yacht. I'm wondering how badly she was damaged - I've never read a word on her prospects, since. Very sad if she's not put back where she very nearly was.

snowleopard
24-03-11, 20:23
Malcolm Miller lay off Falmouth for a long time with a tent over her. She was moved up river last summer before Falmouth week and it sounds as though she stayed there. I haven't seen any signs of work being done on her.

puddock
24-03-11, 21:23
http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?index=101710

Another great Aberdeen built ship of course......

dancrane
24-03-11, 21:42
Thanks, to you who've posted. I'm slightly surprised, that out of all the hundreds, the thousands of crewmen who must've taken their places as trainees on the Malcolm Miller or Winston Churchill over several decades, not even one has a single word of response, damning or full of respect, for one of the old hulls lying longterm in a Cornish river.

Aren't there any tales, any memories, opinions? That's more weird than anything else. Why aren't there? The ghost-storyist in me begins to form theories...feel free to add to them...

Downsman
24-03-11, 22:13
I may be way off target here but I'm sure I saw the (ex) Winston Churchill somewhere in Greece, I think Attica way about 2003/4. She was under the Greek flag and had sprouted all sorts of Radio/telephone comms aerials like big white mushrooms festooning her rig. She had lost her beauty....

BAtoo
24-03-11, 22:14
Thanks, to you who've posted. I'm slightly surprised, that out of all the hundreds, the thousands of crewmen who must've taken their places as trainees on the Malcolm Miller or Winston Churchill over several decades, not even one has a single word of response, damning or full of respect, for one of the old hulls lying longterm in a Cornish river.

Aren't there any tales, any memories, opinions? That's more weird than anything else. Why aren't there? The ghost-storyist in me begins to form theories...feel free to add to them...


Well, the OPs question was about where she is now not about what a good time we had on her........

dancrane
24-03-11, 22:27
Perfectly true, I was curious where she is, not why she's there. But, now, I'm thinking, high time the hull was either put back under sail, or alternatively, sent down where we'll all end up; why this weird hiatus? Who owns the Helena C, and when'll they do what they'd had in mind, again?

I guess it makes me miserable, seeing once-glorious sailing ships reduced to antenna-bearing barges.

If any of you gents have tales recalling sailing days aboard those T.S.s...I wanna hear them!

Searush
24-03-11, 22:56
I did a week on the Malcolm Miller & thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but you asked what had become of her & I hadn't a clue. Still been keeping an eye on the thread, just seemed little point in commenting on the past.

dancrane
24-03-11, 23:47
There's the very unhappy possibility of this nice old boat just silently disappearing because no-one heard her go, and because her decrepit state couldn't be quickly paid back into cost-effective usefulness. Rather sad, when so many must've shared great days and weeks of sailing on board.

Anything, to revive the spirit her comissioning must have given everyone involved. Is there any voyage that a big 3-masted schooner can't undertake?

Here, or wherever else is possible (I'm still new at this), I'd like to read all, and any, accounts of trips in the Malcolm Miller, or the Winston Churchill, before they're just distant memories, and before the vessels' renovation has been overlooked as something this century has retained no interest in...

caiman
25-03-11, 00:45
A very long time ago,I happened to be 'Bosun's day worker' whilst anchored off St Ives in a SE 7-8 aboard the 'Churchill' as a trainee.The dawn was breaking-a grey face- we heard that the 'Mickey Mouse' had just passed Land's End, and was on a broad reach heading passed us, and on up to Lundy for a BBq with the Crew, and a film crew on board.As She hove into sight,I asked the Bosun's permission to go below and get my old 2 1/2 inch camera.
'No',He replied,'You're mine for the day'
'I don't care'I said,'this is a once in a lifetime experiance for me'and went below for my camera.
I took some still pictures,video had not been invented in those days,those pictures are still on the wall in my stairway.
The Malcom Miller came passed us at about 10 knots.Reefed staysail,fully reefed foresail,fully reefed main,storm trysail.She gybed passed us.She dipped her ensign.If that wasn't enough,there was some geezer up on the mast blowin a 'kin bugle!!
'That'I said to myself out loud,'is the Ship I wanna be on'.
She carried on up towards Lundy at a reported 14K.
I did go aboard Her a couple of times as Watch Leader after that.Outstanding sailing,and a bit of adventure,and an experiance for a youngish man.
I happened to be up the Fal in November 2010 and saw the MM exactly as described moored by the pub.I've often wondered about the fate of the two old STA Ships.They have touched a lot of lives over the years,mine,for the better.
Cheers

PS.I apologised to the Bosun later,and made sure that I was not found lacking in my day work.

Seajet
25-03-11, 05:42
I was once honoured to be given a trip on Royalist, after her officers had seen my little boat beating into a bit of a blow.

One of the people I met aboard was the ( or 'a' ) skipper of the Malcolm Miller & Winston Churchill; he was an impressive chap to sail with, while he was not in overall charge he still managed to get us fine reaching into Portsmouth at one hell of a pace !

I always thought there was something distinctly fishy about the deal giving away the Malcolm Miller and Winston Churchill in return for a job named after a Greek squillionaire; and it's amazing how many pubs / ships etc which are insured but are going through financial difficulties happen to catch fire... :rolleyes:

Cookee
25-03-11, 08:18
I was once honoured to be given a trip on Royalist, after her officers had seen my little boat beating into a bit of a blow.


I was at the |Nautical College Pangbourne and as such were dressed as RN Cadets (very similar to Dartmouth chaps). I ended up on Royalist with a mate from the college and had a great week with a load of Sea Cadets - everyone got on brilliantly and a lot was learnt, a brilliant week on the South Coast - we even made it to Dartmouth!

dancrane
25-03-11, 08:33
Great stories, thanks gents.

I wonder if a marine surveyor has taken a look at the MM since that fire. Considering how great she looked in advertising material just two years back, it'd be very fine to see both ships passing in UK waters, regularly, once again.

If that big lottery prize comes to this address, count on it.

dancrane
25-03-11, 11:35
I've only just seen that sistership Sir Winston Churchill may be chartered in Greece for 50,000 euros per week!

The quicker the Malcolm Miller (or whatever her inactive current owners choose to rename her) is sailing again, the sooner she too might be raking it in...

KristiferColumbus
25-03-11, 11:56
I was disappointed & surprised that they were both sold off when they were,not that I was lucky enough to sail in either of them.Just having seen them sail in & out of Hamble often enough I thought they were magnificent ships.Why were they got rid of when they were?
Like the Halcyon that was moored at the mouth of the Hamble river for ages & never went anywhere it seems like a bit of a scandal to me.:(

Searush
25-03-11, 12:05
I'm not sure they ever were a paying proposition. They were designed ot be labour intensive. There were no winches, everything was gang-hauled, "Two-six, HEAVE", swigging lines were needed to catch the halyards before the tension was lost in tying off.

It's a long way up the rigging to furl a sail when reefing in a blow & the motion is worse, the higher you climb. I was sent aloft when already feeling green once, knowing working aloft was voluntary I asked to be excused. "Get up there & stop moaning" I was told, so I did. It was really hard to grip the stiff, wet canvas swelled by the wind, your nails are the first things to go & blood on the sails is a common sight. My sickness was affecting my concentration, but I just managed to shout the traditional warning "BELOW" before jettisoning my entire meal in a single hurl. Carrots were added to the blood on the sail, but on deck, the watch leader heard my call & looked up - just in time to catch my meal right across his upturned face.

Now that's what I call Karma. :D

On the following day, entering St Hellier in brilliant sunlight, I was on the wheel & we manned the yards. It's a helluva sight that, even under engine & being allowed to bring her alongside (being very careful not to knock me mates off the yards) made me feel 10' tall.

If you want to read about sailing windjammers, read Alan Villiers, RH Dana, Adrian Seligman, et al.

KristiferColumbus
25-03-11, 12:13
Great stories keep um coming.Can't wait to get sailing this year.
It even makes bottom scrubbing & anti-fouling look less onerous.:)

dancrane
25-03-11, 12:16
Great story, Searush. I guess the Sir WC, in the Med, relies on a lot of powered winches rather than tear guests from their Beluga and Bollinger, or their nails from their hands.

Any more memories out there? I'm thinking of just how many went aboard these ships, who're now skippers themselves, and must be chock full of tales. I dare the Malcolm Miller's current owner to drop in and tell us what his plans are for her...

prv
25-03-11, 12:21
I just managed to shout the traditional warning "BELOW" before jettisoning my entire meal in a single hurl.

I heard of an episode on Stad Amsterdam (I think it was) where someone managed to do that, right through the open skylight onto the middle of the messroom table where the other watches were having lunch :D

The only time I've had one of my watch throw up aloft, it was windy enough that the whole lot blew away horizontally rather than sullying the decks below. I don't think the guy was seasick as such - I don't remember him being ill before or after - more terrified at finding himself at the outer end of a topsail yard, heeled over the sea, the day after joining the ship.

I might have had more sympathy had he not been a noisy American constantly talking about how great he was going to be at working aloft :D. He stayed on deck after that.

Pete

dancrane
25-03-11, 12:55
Pardon me gents, I have to spend the rest of today drinking in the sun.

Phoenix of Hamble
25-03-11, 14:12
Seajet,

Royalist is still going strong.... my daughter is hoping to be on her this summer.... still used pretty much 365 days a year by the Sea Cadet corp

They still have to wear full number ones all the time they are aboard... a rule designed to instil some discipline and that meets with my full approval!

She's a grand sight at sea too!

As an aside and more directly related to the OP's question.... I used to see Churchill on a regular basis in Plymouth in the late 80's....

Greenwichman
25-03-11, 21:32
Thanks, to you who've posted. I'm slightly surprised, that out of all the hundreds, the thousands of crewmen who must've taken their places as trainees on the Malcolm Miller or Winston Churchill over several decades, not even one has a single word of response, damning or full of respect, for one of the old hulls lying longterm in a Cornish river.

Aren't there any tales, any memories, opinions? That's more weird than anything else. Why aren't there? The ghost-storyist in me begins to form theories...feel free to add to them...

Oh, I suspect there are, just not on PBO forum. I shipped as a trainee in 1967 in SWC and as navigator many times through the 1970s in SWC and MM; why not join the forum on Facebook that has been created for crews to swap dits?
See: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=30680956784&v=wall
:-)

Bajansailor
26-03-11, 04:24
From what I have heard (I never sailed on them) the two schooners were the best vessels that the STA (now the TSYT) had - they were certainly far better sailing ships (in terms of speed) than the two brigs Stavros Niarchos and Prince William.
I think it was not uncommon to often reach speeds over 12 - 14 knots with the schooners under sail, while the brigs can probably manage about 9 knots maximum with everything up in half a hurricane (if they dare) - PRV Pete, what was your highest recorded speed on your brig voyages?
The TSYT only has Stavros now - PW was sold last year to the Pakistani Navy to be used as a sail training vessel (and yes, she now has a Pakistani name).

However the schooners were built in the 60's, in the days before the rules for passenger carrying vessels became much more stringent.
I think (am not certain) that the main reason why the schooners had to go was because it was just not economic to re-fit them to comply with the new safety standards that came in within the last 10 years or so - these would probably have included subdivision and upgrading water tight bulkheads re flooding, and replacing all outfit materials that could burn easily with more fire retardant stuff, and lots of other factors.

However they could still be used 'as is' if they were not carrying passengers - and a 'passenger' ship only really comes into being (according to SOLAS) when there are more than 12 passengers on board - a cargo ship can carry up to 12 pax, and still be a cargo ship.
The pax just have to accept that the level of safety on a cargo vessel, although very good, is probably less than what would be required on a pure passenger vessel.
Hence this was probably why SWC and MM were sold to be converted into private yachts, with up to 12 pax each (and perhaps at least 12 crew, if not more).

Royalist is smaller than the schooners, and I think she was probably built a bit later - however I reckon thst she still needed a major re-fit to make her comply with the new rules. I remember seeing her hauled out at Endeavour Quay in Gosport a little while back for what appeared to be quite a major re-fit.

Did any Forumites ever go sailing on the Windjammers Barefoot Cruises in the Caribbean?
They had a fleet of very old sailing ships, including Mandalay, Polynesia and Yankee Clipper, and were famous for their rum punch parties and (very) laid back attitude.
One of their vessels, Fantome, foundered off Roatan in 1998 during Hurricane Mitch with all crew lost (no pax on board, they had all been put ashore earlier before the vessel proceeded to sea to ride out the hurricane), and this must have been a huge emotional and financial blow to the company from which they never recovered properly.

I went on board Mandalay in St Georges, Grenada 9 years ago with some other crew members from the Stavros who was berthed on the quay behind her (this was my first trip on Stavros, and first time sailing on a tall ship, and it was brilliant).
Anyways, we were talking to the Captain, while being fed extremely potent rum punches, and I hazily remember him saying then that their fleet would probably have to be sold off (or scrapped) in order to conform with the new rules that were coming in - and the Windjammers would have still had to comply, even though most were registered in Equatorial Guinea (which is probably on par with St Vincent, if not worse, for 'flags of convenience').
But I think they went bankrupt a few years later - Yankee Clipper is still laid up in the docks at Port of Spain, Trinidad (I saw her there a few months ago) while the others are scattered around the Caribbean and Mandalay ended up in the Galapagos - here is a link to her - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=64

And here is Polynesia - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=67

And Yankee Clipper - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=68

Although only Mandalay has voyages listed, which suggests that Polynesia is (like Yankee Clipper) also laid up.

ean_p
26-03-11, 08:07
I seem to remember that there was an issue with the SWC as she fell off the stocks while she was being built and it imparted some kind of twist or error in her so that she forever favoured one side or another in some way. Another tale is that while manoeuvring alongside in Albert dock the wind caught her and she speared a parked van on the dockside side with her bowsprit right through the drivers window.....

prv
26-03-11, 10:42
From what I have heard (I never sailed on them) the two schooners were the best vessels that the STA (now the TSYT) had - they were certainly far better sailing ships (in terms of speed) than the two brigs Stavros Niarchos and Prince William.
I think it was not uncommon to often reach speeds over 12 - 14 knots with the schooners under sail, while the brigs can probably manage about 9 knots maximum with everything up in half a hurricane (if they dare) - PRV Pete, what was your highest recorded speed on your brig voyages?

Not sure what's the fastest I've been. I believe Stavros has been clocked at 13 knots once, in ideal conditions, but that was exceptional - half that speed is more common. I'd agree with your assessment of the two designs' sailing merits - the main course on the brigs can't even be set most of the time as it causes huge weather helm. Two voyages I've been on we didn't have one, as the fore-course had blown out previously and the main course was swapped into its place. The most recent trip I think there wasn't even a plan to replace it, as it gets used so rarely.

Pete

dancrane
26-03-11, 11:36
Fascinating to think - if the keel-damage story is true - that the SWC has spent 45 years not steering straight!

Thanks for the link, Greenwichman. I love the Pathe footage of the SWC arriving on the Thames.

Looking through the 'Friends-of' site, I haven't yet found any speculation on the present condition and future prospects of the Malcolm Miller. Does anyone know her present owner's name?

KristiferColumbus
26-03-11, 13:08
From what I have heard (I never sailed on them) the two schooners were the best vessels that the STA (now the TSYT) had - they were certainly far better sailing ships (in terms of speed) than the two brigs Stavros Niarchos and Prince William.
I think it was not uncommon to often reach speeds over 12 - 14 knots with the schooners under sail, while the brigs can probably manage about 9 knots maximum with everything up in half a hurricane (if they dare) - PRV Pete, what was your highest recorded speed on your brig voyages?
The TSYT only has Stavros now - PW was sold last year to the Pakistani Navy to be used as a sail training vessel (and yes, she now has a Pakistani name).

However the schooners were built in the 60's, in the days before the rules for passenger carrying vessels became much more stringent.
I think (am not certain) that the main reason why the schooners had to go was because it was just not economic to re-fit them to comply with the new safety standards that came in within the last 10 years or so - these would probably have included subdivision and upgrading water tight bulkheads re flooding, and replacing all outfit materials that could burn easily with more fire retardant stuff, and lots of other factors.

However they could still be used 'as is' if they were not carrying passengers - and a 'passenger' ship only really comes into being (according to SOLAS) when there are more than 12 passengers on board - a cargo ship can carry up to 12 pax, and still be a cargo ship.
The pax just have to accept that the level of safety on a cargo vessel, although very good, is probably less than what would be required on a pure passenger vessel.
Hence this was probably why SWC and MM were sold to be converted into private yachts, with up to 12 pax each (and perhaps at least 12 crew, if not more).

Royalist is smaller than the schooners, and I think she was probably built a bit later - however I reckon thst she still needed a major re-fit to make her comply with the new rules. I remember seeing her hauled out at Endeavour Quay in Gosport a little while back for what appeared to be quite a major re-fit.

Did any Forumites ever go sailing on the Windjammers Barefoot Cruises in the Caribbean?
They had a fleet of very old sailing ships, including Mandalay, Polynesia and Yankee Clipper, and were famous for their rum punch parties and (very) laid back attitude.
One of their vessels, Fantome, foundered off Roatan in 1998 during Hurricane Mitch with all crew lost (no pax on board, they had all been put ashore earlier before the vessel proceeded to sea to ride out the hurricane), and this must have been a huge emotional and financial blow to the company from which they never recovered properly.

I went on board Mandalay in St Georges, Grenada 9 years ago with some other crew members from the Stavros who was berthed on the quay behind her (this was my first trip on Stavros, and first time sailing on a tall ship, and it was brilliant).
Anyways, we were talking to the Captain, while being fed extremely potent rum punches, and I hazily remember him saying then that their fleet would probably have to be sold off (or scrapped) in order to conform with the new rules that were coming in - and the Windjammers would have still had to comply, even though most were registered in Equatorial Guinea (which is probably on par with St Vincent, if not worse, for 'flags of convenience').
But I think they went bankrupt a few years later - Yankee Clipper is still laid up in the docks at Port of Spain, Trinidad (I saw her there a few months ago) while the others are scattered around the Caribbean and Mandalay ended up in the Galapagos - here is a link to her - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=64

And here is Polynesia - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=67

And Yankee Clipper - http://www.sailingshipadventures.com/index.cfm?event=GetVesselDetails&VesselID=68

Although only Mandalay has voyages listed, which suggests that Polynesia is (like Yankee Clipper) also laid up.

Very interesting post Martin & what a charmed life you do lead!
Not surprised if they can't find charter party's for those last two vessels with wish bone rigs,what a dogs breakfast!

Seajet
26-03-11, 19:23
Morgana,
I never thought for a moment that TS Royalist is not up and operational, sorry if I somehow gave that impression.

Re. Malcom Miller, I heard the story about 'kebabing a car with the bowsprit' too; the version I heard was of a 2CV picked up through the windows and carried along Weymouth Quay - it was related to me by a Tall Ship skipper ( actually from the Winston Churchill ! ) who didn't like alcohol etc, so I think it's probably true...

Nowadays it would have made a top scorer, in a buttock clenching way, on youtube...:)

dancrane
26-03-11, 20:44
Has anybody on the Fal even seen the old schooner this year? I can't see her on Google's satellite imagery, though that may be earlier. Looking through Helena C webpages, I see she'd been for sale for $5.5million a few years back, and looked to be worth every cent as a luxury cruising yacht. I can't find a single newspaper reference to the fire, or anything about her ownership now.

Very sad to see that kebab-bowsprit missing, in the only recent pics. Maybe we can be hopeful though - if she hasn't been broken up yet, it is presumably someone's grand and costly plan to fix her up as she was a few years back, to offer at a loony price again. Hopefully that'll be work for a UK yard...

mph
26-03-11, 22:27
I can't find a single newspaper reference to the fire


Here is the news report on the fire: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/2331665.man_badly_burned_in_boat_fire/

Also, here is the Wikipedia page on MM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Miller

dancrane
26-03-11, 22:38
Thanks MPH; actually I did find that report, but the phrasing in it was so vague, I doubted it refered to the Malcolm Miller. The equivalent of saying "a man has been arrested" when everyone locally knows who it is. I hadn't known she'd been in Hythe.

I guess if she was subsequently fit to be towed 200 miles down-Channel to Falmouth, she's not quite finished yet.

Searush
26-03-11, 22:59
(snip)
I guess if she was subsequently fit to be towed 200 miles down-Channel to Falmouth, she's not quite finished yet.

They towed the SS Great Britain back from the Falklands as a hulk. Mind you they made a nice job of tidying her up in the end - but not much sailing left in her.

mph
26-03-11, 23:38
Thanks MPH; actually I did find that report, but the phrasing in it was so vague, I doubted it refered to the Malcolm Miller. The equivalent of saying "a man has been arrested" when everyone locally knows who it is. I hadn't known she'd been in Hythe.

I guess if she was subsequently fit to be towed 200 miles down-Channel to Falmouth, she's not quite finished yet.

I remember seeing MM moored at the old American navy base pier just south of Hythe in the spring of 2008; I remember her being there for some time, I think having a minor refit for the charter season.
Another local radio news report at the time said that the fire originated in the engine room which is where the crew member was hurt.
The engine room is directly below the chartroom and galley so an extensive fire will have made a real mess of the heart of the vessel.
I don't know when they shifted her down to Falmouth but it was certainly moved off the berth at Hythe quite quickly.

I used to work as Bosun on both STA schooners in the 90's and knew the ships very well; it was a really sad sight to see her moored up in Falmouth the following year minus masts & bowsprit and with a tent covering her to hide the damage.

On a lighter note, to my knowledge, the car skewering episode happened a number of times in various places over the many years she was in service…even the STA van got clobbered once by the bowsprit in Weymouth when she was turning!
After that, they always turned the other way in Weymouth with the stern towards the quay!

Ubergeekian
26-03-11, 23:55
They towed the SS Great Britain back from the Falklands as a hulk. Mind you they made a nice job of tidying her up in the end - but not much sailing left in her.

She crossed the Atlantic on a barge - only the very last bit, from Avonmouth to Bristol, was made on her own. Golly, how I wish I'd been there to see her come home.

dancrane
27-03-11, 00:10
If I'm breathing, I'll certainly be in the Solent to see the Malcolm Miller come home.

Cookee
28-03-11, 12:45
It's a long way up the rigging to furl a sail when reefing in a blow & the motion is worse, the higher you climb. I was sent aloft when already feeling green once, knowing working aloft was voluntary I asked to be excused. "Get up there & stop moaning" I was told,

I remember a similar instance on the Royalist on the way to Dartmouth - we had been sent aloft to reduce the amount of sail and I was on the end of the top yard - a precarious place a the best of times and the boat was rocking such that it was possible to look directly down to one side of the ship and then the other! The guy next to me wasn't the happiest aloft and proceeded to lose the entire contents of his stomach - luckily I saw it happening and shouted a warning below. It was what happened next that was the tough bit - he wouldn't bloody move! The Bosun had to come up and prize him from his spot and get him down - it took forever and I have never seen anyone alive look quite as white as he did on that day!

dancrane
28-03-11, 12:51
What would health and safety say?

prv
28-03-11, 13:04
What would health and safety say?

Read the MAIB report on the unfortunate death on Royalist last year. They have some specific (and relatively minor) recommendations for the way the Sea Cadets run their ship, but don't object to the general principles of how modern square-riggers operate.

Pete

dancrane
28-03-11, 14:14
I'll take a look at that report.

Is there, anywhere, public access to the Malcolm Miller's and Sir Winston Churchill's logs, going back decades and detailing their voyages?

I'm very interested to know which it was I saw, out by Horse Sand Fort, 3rd or 4th of October 1994.

FWB
03-04-11, 09:14
Photos of Malcolm Miller alongside the Windsor Castle at Tolverne on the Fal.
Taken yesterday 2/4/11.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/slorraine/photos/IMG_0067.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/slorraine/photos/IMG_0066.jpg

dancrane
03-04-11, 10:01
Many thanks, Dylan - great photos!

All things considered, I reckon the MM doesn't look so poorly as I'd supposed.

Let's hope...;)

VexedIllologist
04-04-11, 20:41
A very long time ago,I happened to be 'Bosun's day worker' whilst anchored off St Ives in a SE 7-8 aboard the 'Churchill' as a trainee.The dawn was breaking-a grey face- we heard that the 'Mickey Mouse' had just passed Land's End, and was on a broad reach heading passed us, and on up to Lundy for a BBq with the Crew, and a film crew on board.As She hove into sight,I asked the Bosun's permission to go below and get my old 2 1/2 inch camera.
'No',He replied,'You're mine for the day'
'I don't care'I said,'this is a once in a lifetime experiance for me'and went below for my camera.
I took some still pictures,video had not been invented in those days,those pictures are still on the wall in my stairway.
The Malcom Miller came passed us at about 10 knots.Reefed staysail,fully reefed foresail,fully reefed main,storm trysail.She gybed passed us.She dipped her ensign.If that wasn't enough,there was some geezer up on the mast blowin a 'kin bugle!!
'That'I said to myself out loud,'is the Ship I wanna be on'.
She carried on up towards Lundy at a reported 14K.
I did go aboard Her a couple of times as Watch Leader after that.Outstanding sailing,and a bit of adventure,and an experiance for a youngish man.
I happened to be up the Fal in November 2010 and saw the MM exactly as described moored by the pub.I've often wondered about the fate of the two old STA Ships.They have touched a lot of lives over the years,mine,for the better.
Cheers

PS.I apologised to the Bosun later,and made sure that I was not found lacking in my day work.

Well, Caiman,

really delighted to read your dit, which has made my day! I was on the other end of your tale. As a matter of record, I was playing my 'kin trumpet that day (rather than a 'kin bugle!). Unusually I was on the bridge, rather than in my more 'normal' spot in the Crow's Nest on the foremast (excellent for entering and leaving harbour etc with the yards and rigging fully 'manned'). After all, it was the tail end of a SE-ly gale, as you mention! As we passed you it was the low end of F8 having been a solid F9 overnight in the Channel. We were romping along!

Although I can't imagine you could have heard very much of it despite our 'close pass' to leeward of your choppy anchorage, you were 'greeted' with a medley of 'General Salute' (as we approached) 'Early One Morning' as we passed and 'Rule Britannia!' as we stomped onwards - great fun with the excellent morale onboard MM at the time, of course.

From the Master downwards we in MM were absolutely determined to 'show off' to SWC as we passed her and it seems that we did a good job. Captain Chris Blake was a great leader and keen on my musical efforts for the ship - he was later well-known with the replica of Captain Cook's Endeavour and went on to Spirit of Bermuda etc.

I sailed with SWC and MM over several years in the 1980s (Trainee, Watch Leader, Bosun's Mate, the toughest job onboard - Cook's Mate, and Supernumerary) and had many memorable moments. I was even signed on once as 'Official Trumpeter' (this voyage included being at St Malo for the start of the trans-Atlantic Tall Ships Race in 1984 of which more below).

Without any references close to hand, memory is a bit rusty, but I think you were probably off St Ives in SWC either in Summer 1982 (when I think we did have a film crew onboard the the schooners sailed around each other for footage) or in the Spring of 1984... [Later edit - memory returning - it must have been 1982]

If it was 1984, I think we in MM had been at St Malo to see off the competitors in the trans-Atlantic Tall Ships Race. I may be getting my voyages mixed up together, though, as the trumpet always sailed with me. [Later edit - think I am mixing up separate voyages in 1982 and 1984 below - sorry!].

At St Malo we had 'saluted' the other ships as they arrived (i.e. braced outboard and fully manned the yards and rigging) with 'General Salute' followed by the relevant national anthems from the Crow's Nest. This proved a particular hit with the largest competitor - 'Darn My Jersey' (Dar Młodzieży), the Polish Merchant Marine Academy ship - then only a couple of years old and on the 'other side' in the Cold War.

Dar Młodzieży (DM) was too big to enter the basin and manoeuvre under her own power and so was handled by two tugs at a stately pace. Consequently her cadets were in their best uniforms and lining the ship's rail from stem to stern - a most impressive sight.

The Poles may have slightly bristled when 'General Salute' was blown from MM and all in the rigging stood tall; perhaps they were thinking 'what the hell is going on here' in Polish? As I continued with 'La Marseillaise' and 'God Save the Queen' they may have got the idea, but the reaction when I played the Polish National Anthem was most impressive; they gave us a resounding cheer and threw their caps all over the place!

As MM was not a competitor in the race across the Atlantic, it may have surprised some of the other ships at St Malo that the smallest ship there (MM) and the largest (DM) suddenly became 'best pals'. A number of interesting inter-ship competitions developed including a very memorable, but somewhat unevenly-matched 'tug of war' on the main deck of the DM. I was privileged, being quite a young chap at the time, to spend a lot of vodka-lubricated time onboard DM with MM's Master. Being invited by DM's Captain to climb to the top of her mainmast and 'blow my own trumpet' was quite something. I can't remember how high that is, but it must be about 160' or so and is quite a climb, but what a view!

Anyway, hope this recollection jogs some other happy memories - and I haven't even scratched the surface. Does anybody else remember the aftermath of the Blackwall Engineering non-'floating' drydock near disaster in December 1984 at Canary Wharf - as it used to be? Yes, I did a bit of volunteer 'shipkeeping' too. We had to get a 'scratch crew' together to motor her down to Shoreham and dock her there. The New Year came off the South Coast on the way, so we 'rang out the old and rang in the new' in the old-fashioned manner.

I will try to PM you after posting this, as I would love to get copies of your pictures.

As for MM now, well, she doesn't look too bad at all in the recent pictures; let us hope she gets back to sea before too long. They were beautiful ships and superb sailing vessels.

My, this is rather long, but what fun those days were!

dancrane
04-04-11, 21:24
Sir, that variety of post, I could read till dawn! Feel free to add long post-scripts...

Many thanks for helping to bring the MM to life. I only started this post because, after seeing one of the schooners from my dinghy, mid-Solent in October 1994, and being seriously impressed, I wondered (after I gained internet), where she was/is now.

I couldn't have predicted the fun it would drum-up from ex-crew members!

I'm hoping there'll be more - more memories, and, in the not too distant, some more of the MM, sailing. Mr Dylan's photos, (shown somewhere here), taken within Falmouth Harbour in recent days, made me optimistic about her condition.

caiman
04-04-11, 23:04
VI- The last time I had goose bumps like I did after reading your reply was when I was into racing Motor Cycles.Coolio!!:)
I must confess that after I'd posted,I went to look at the photo on the wall,and there it was-gone.Replaced by a pic of a Grey Fergie I'd restored.However,it will be in the house and I promise to dig it out.While I'm at it,I'll dig out my old Cruise 'reports'.
I remember a tug of war verses the SWC on the China Clay Dock in Fowey on one cruise.I also remember we smashed the gaff on the Main(I think) on another.On the same cruise,the SWC blew an engine(?)
I have a vivid memory on being laid out on the aft deck one morning watch whilst running under the 'course' towards St.Catherine's light on the IOW.The weather was about a F6 I think.We were bowling along at a good rate anyway.As it came light,the Bosun appeared at the hatch and smiled.He looked aft at the weather and frowned a bit.He then looked forrad and saw that we were under the square sail.He then ran to the bridge,His body language changed drastically.I new something was wrong and roused the watch.We were told to brail up the course which we did.We were then asked for volunteeers to go aloft and stow the course.(I apologise if my terminoligy is wrong,I'm into multihulls now !!) As Watch Leader I led the team aloft and ensured we did a tidy stow.The ship was giving it loads rolling,it was awesome! Real 'Peter the Whaler' stuff.Real Square Rigger stuff!The watch was mentioned in 'despatches' by the 'Old Man' on the half deck just before happy hour.
Proud?You would'nt believe it.I don't think any of the lads in the watch had been afloat before they stepped aboard for that cruise.
Outstanding memories.
Cheers

prv
04-04-11, 23:26
As Watch Leader I led the team aloft and ensured we did a tidy stow.The ship was giving it loads rolling,it was awesome! Real 'Peter the Whaler' stuff.Real Square Rigger stuff!The watch was mentioned in 'despatches' by the 'Old Man' on the half deck just before happy hour.

I know exactly what you mean, having done a few such "heroic" stows on Stavros. The feeling when you get back to the deck is amazing.

The most memorable was probably stowing the fore upper topsail at 2am in a force 9 hailstorm halfway back from the Azores. It was deemed too rough to send the voyage crew up, so it was we three deckhands plus the leader of the watch on deck, doing both upper topsails (or possibly fore upper and main lower, not sure), which meant one person per side. That was bloody hard work!

Pete

PS: Re-reading, it looks a bit like I'm trying to "top" your story. I assure you I'm not, just sharing in that feeling of a job aloft well done :)

dancrane
04-04-11, 23:33
Thank you, Caiman, likewise PRV. No exaggeration, there's nothing like a story from you gents who sailed the ship, to bring it back to life in the readers' minds.

Whatever you remember, please, type it out! I'm half out-on-a-yard just thinking about it.

prv
04-04-11, 23:52
there's nothing like a story from you gents who sailed the ship, to bring it back to life in the readers' minds.

Just to be clear - I never sailed on the schooners, although I would have liked to. I wasn't aware of the organisation until 2005, when a fellow 4th-year student mentioned an upcoming trip she was going on, and by that time the brigs were well established and the schooners long gone. As my first (and, I expected, only) voyage I did the Tall Ships' Race to Norway that year, on William. Not entirely without drama either - we answered a Mayday, put a salvage pump on board the casualty, and trashed our RIB recovering it back on board.

Pictures of that trip are here (http://verdonet.org.uk/photos/TallShips/).

Pete

VexedIllologist
05-04-11, 00:37
VI- The last time I had goose bumps like I did after reading your reply was when I was into racing Motor Cycles.Coolio!!:)

Proud?You would'nt believe it.I don't think any of the lads in the watch had been afloat before they stepped aboard for that cruise.
Outstanding memories.
Cheers

Great times, weren't they?

You are right about the sense of teamwork and pride that these ships and their voyages instilled.

I have managed to unbefuddle my memory a little and am now sure we must have passed you on that memorable windy morning at St Ives in summer 1982. My confusion above is because MM had been to St Malo on that trip too (as well as the other mentioned in 1984)! It doesn't seem like nearly 29 years ago since that 'summer morning'!

We got to Lundy before you that day and I remember blowing some more derisory notes on your arrival there to cue the start of the MM's ship's company 'singing' SWC into her anchorage nearby. Both ships (or was it just MM - can't have been) then had a great big BBQ on the beach (although I seem to remember that a large aluminium pan got a bit carried away and caught fire, spitting spats of metal in all directions!).

I certainly did plenty of trumpeting over the years with the STA Schooners, but it is a bit of a 'tinny' sound on its own, whereas if you have ever heard a ship entering harbour with the bagpipes skirling, now that really is something!

Now, if that isn't 'fred drift', what is?

If you think you might find a picture, please send me a PM (I couldn't find how to do this for you, but I am practically a forum virgin!

caiman
05-04-11, 07:47
V I-consider it done,it will take me a bit of searching,but I'm sure I've still got the photies.I will have a look after work this evening.I remember the pics as being dark and a bit grainy in the old 2" square film format.I know that I've still got the A4 'Charts' that were given to each trainee at the end of each cruise.They will have the dates,cruise details,and the names of the Crew and Trainees aboard at the time.I've only managed to send one PM myself, so we are all still learning.I think the BBQ was confined to the MM Crew.I can remember that I didn't get any of it,allthough I did go ashore(first time on Lundy).I have never seen the film that was made by that film crew.If you have any pointers as to how to find it,please let me know.
PRV-No worrys.During my formative years I was into both Gaff and Square Rig ships.To sail on a 'ship rigged' vessel was my ultimate goal,and so,yes,you have 'topped' me:) Respect. As I type this,I am sitting within 2 metres of a fully ship rigged model in a glass case about 3foot long.A model hull of a 'Bluenose' Schooner,and a glass cased model of a locally built Barque 'Pride of the Sea' built in Borth-y-Gest(Porthmadoc),so some of the 'tradition' is still inside me somewhere.
Dancrane-Nice one.Thanks for starting this.
Cheers

prv
05-04-11, 08:11
I know that I've still got the A4 'Charts' that were given to each trainee at the end of each cruise.They will have the dates,cruise details,and the names of the Crew and Trainees aboard at the time.

Ah, the Track Charts! We're still doing 'em :)

Here's (http://www.verdonet.org.uk/stuff/SSN418.pdf) the one for my last-but-one voyage, which I happen to have scanned in.

Pete

dancrane
05-04-11, 10:04
That's a great gallery of pics you have there, PRV. Unforgettable stuff.

One dumb question; was the Green Watch so-called because they're all conspicuously vomitting, or for another reason?

I'm very glad to have begun this thread - it's gone in various directions I couldn't have predicted!

Especially good to see recent pics of the MM afloat and looking like her owner intends eventually to rig and sail her as before.

prv
05-04-11, 10:17
One dumb question; was the Green Watch so-called because they're all conspicuously vomitting

Yep, exactly that :)

The actual watches are Red, White, and Blue, but when there's a gang of people hanging over the rail taking no part in activities, they're invariably known as Green Watch.

Pete

FWB
05-04-11, 10:50
Especially good to see recent pics of the MM afloat and looking like her owner intends eventually to rig and sail her as before.

Yes, it does look as if things are about to happen. When I last saw her in the autumn she was covered in polythene sheeting. So if the winter winds havent blown it away then someone is going to do some work.
I'll take another look next week to see if there's anyone aboard.
I went aboard her once in 1980? her Master a certain M K-B and I had the same kind of small yacht, H-Boat.
Are those davits new or have they always been there?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/slorraine/photos/IMG_0065.jpg

dancrane
05-04-11, 10:59
Fair question, Dylan...I'm sure one of this thread's contributors will know the answer.

I wonder if the vessel's owner, or the project manager (or anyone involved) is reading this thread? It'd be great to have even a few words, from someone who knows what the exact plan for her is.

If you're able to snap further developments as they occur, I'll be excited to watch the progress...as I expect, will hundreds of other readers!

Pasarell
05-04-11, 17:14
I was lucky enough to take part in the 1972 Tall Ships Race from Nab Tower to the northern tip of Denmark on the Malcolm Miller. We were a boys ship and the Sir Winston Churchill was a girls ship. The first time an all girl crew had taken part on either ship if I remember correctly.
We joined her in Southampton then enjoyed several parties and events before a parade of sail (in thick fog!) down the Solent to the start.. I don't remember the watch names etc but I was one of the team who went to the upper yard on the foremast to furl the square sails. Scary and exhilerating all at the same time.
The race went from the Nab, around the Basarelle Light Vessel (spelling may be a bit off here!) then up through the Channel and North Sea to the finish off Frederikshafen, Denmark.
Weather was filthy in the North Sea and I remember a small yacht (probably about 60') that also raced coming alongside in Frederikshafen and tying tight to us so that our pumps could help hers to slow the water coming in.
After a day or so in Frederikshafen we went to Copenhagen for end of race parties which were amazing.
In Copenhagen I was one of about 6 in the crew who were offered the chance to go aboard the German square rigged ship Gorch Fock to sail to Kiel for the opening of the Olympics. If the MM was amazing this went way beyond. Something like 300 naval cadets as crew, all operating with German efficiency to do everything by human power. Climbing one of the 4 masts was like going up a skyscraper on the outside.
After the Gorch Fock I hitched a lift back to England on one of the other race entrants but can't remember her name now.
Overall a fantastic experience but I'm having to trawl the memory for details after nearly 40 years. I hope the MM can be brought back into service but I wonder what her hull plating is like after so long afloat. It must all be getting a bit tired by now.

caiman
05-04-11, 19:39
V I- You are correct,the St Ives 'fly past'was in July 1982.SWC cruise No.273.
I next sailed on the MM 6-20/11/1982 cruise No.257.Then cruise 278 Feb/March(no year shown).Then cruise 306 8-21/9/1985.Then cruise 371 27/11-3/12/1988.All on the MM.It was cruise No.257 that we lost the main gaff off Cherbourg.
I have the 'Charts' of these cruises on my table.I was incorrect in saying that all the Crew are named on the charts,it's just the officers(aft more honour,forrard better Men ??)except for cruise 371.
Still looking for the pics.
Cheers

caiman
07-04-11, 18:23
I hope I've attatched the MM passage 'Charts'.I'm still looking for the MM 'Fly Past' pics,I've found some,but not the one I'm looking for.
Cheers

prv
07-04-11, 23:11
I hope I've attatched the MM passage 'Charts'.

Heh, brilliant. Funny how the style hasn't changed a bit 20 years later. A couple of the other recent Stavros ones I have are very similar to those.

Pete

VexedIllologist
08-04-11, 20:13
Caiman,

your track charts have reminded me that we in MM came into St Malo in July 1982 where SWC was already berthed (with you onboard) and we would have manned the yards with me in the Crow's Nest playing the trumpet then.

So I think we 'got' you at least three times (St Malo, off St Ives and off Lundy). Morale was very high on that trip!

I was the Cook's Mate on that voyage and that was the hardest work I ever did onboard (given the sea-sickness that went with it). Still, the show had to go on! - and it did.

dancrane
08-04-11, 23:23
Does anybody know if either the SWC or MM ever took on serious transocean work?

Not for one moment to suggest that Biscay or the North Sea, or even the Western Approaches, aren't able to test crews and ships severely. But I'm wondering, what was the greatest distance the Sail Training Association used these vessels for?

caiman
13-04-11, 16:59
I have finaly found the pics of the St Ives 'Fly Past'.My memory nearly served me correctly.The pics with all the fore and aft sails set ,are I think the same cruise somewhere off Lundy.The pics 'beating', are I think taken on the SWC,same cruise.
I hope that you can get some detail.These pics are nearly 30 years old.I don't even remember what camera I used.I found loads of other STA pics.A couple with different shots of people aloft entering St Malo,but I can't confirm which cruise they are.
Cheers

Sorry if this has posted twice.

capnsensible
13-04-11, 17:10
Was on Malcom Miller for 2 weeks in about 1973 or 4. Being a young RN apprentice at the time I was very, very impressed with a visit to Amsterdam.

A vigorous learning curve involving wine, women and song!

dancrane
13-04-11, 19:19
Fantastic photos, Caiman! I hope Malcolm Miller's present owner sees them. They really show how fine these schooners were/are/will be again, all being well.


Any word of activity, down there on the Fal, anybody?

PIKEYBOY
23-05-11, 15:31
So sad seeing MM in the state she is. I sailed on her and SWC.Many memories of great times.I really hope she is preserved and refitted.Would be great to see her returned to her former self.

CharlieChan
05-01-12, 13:08
Ahoy
Video available on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dhl3_zfSqM
More Schooner items on facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/







Well, Caiman,

really delighted to read your dit, which has made my day! I was on the other end of your tale. As a matter of record, I was playing my 'kin trumpet that day (rather than a 'kin bugle!). Unusually I was on the bridge, rather than in my more 'normal' spot in the Crow's Nest on the foremast (excellent for entering and leaving harbour etc with the yards and rigging fully 'manned'). After all, it was the tail end of a SE-ly gale, as you mention! As we passed you it was the low end of F8 having been a solid F9 overnight in the Channel. We were romping along!

Although I can't imagine you could have heard very much of it despite our 'close pass' to leeward of your choppy anchorage, you were 'greeted' with a medley of 'General Salute' (as we approached) 'Early One Morning' as we passed and 'Rule Britannia!' as we stomped onwards - great fun with the excellent morale onboard MM at the time, of course.

From the Master downwards we in MM were absolutely determined to 'show off' to SWC as we passed her and it seems that we did a good job. Captain Chris Blake was a great leader and keen on my musical efforts for the ship - he was later well-known with the replica of Captain Cook's Endeavour and went on to Spirit of Bermuda etc.

I sailed with SWC and MM over several years in the 1980s (Trainee, Watch Leader, Bosun's Mate, the toughest job onboard - Cook's Mate, and Supernumerary) and had many memorable moments. I was even signed on once as 'Official Trumpeter' (this voyage included being at St Malo for the start of the trans-Atlantic Tall Ships Race in 1984 of which more below).

Without any references close to hand, memory is a bit rusty, but I think you were probably off St Ives in SWC either in Summer 1982 (when I think we did have a film crew onboard the the schooners sailed around each other for footage) or in the Spring of 1984... [Later edit - memory returning - it must have been 1982]

If it was 1984, I think we in MM had been at St Malo to see off the competitors in the trans-Atlantic Tall Ships Race. I may be getting my voyages mixed up together, though, as the trumpet always sailed with me. [Later edit - think I am mixing up separate voyages in 1982 and 1984 below - sorry!].

At St Malo we had 'saluted' the other ships as they arrived (i.e. braced outboard and fully manned the yards and rigging) with 'General Salute' followed by the relevant national anthems from the Crow's Nest. This proved a particular hit with the largest competitor - 'Darn My Jersey' (Dar Młodzieży), the Polish Merchant Marine Academy ship - then only a couple of years old and on the 'other side' in the Cold War.

Dar Młodzieży (DM) was too big to enter the basin and manoeuvre under her own power and so was handled by two tugs at a stately pace. Consequently her cadets were in their best uniforms and lining the ship's rail from stem to stern - a most impressive sight.

The Poles may have slightly bristled when 'General Salute' was blown from MM and all in the rigging stood tall; perhaps they were thinking 'what the hell is going on here' in Polish? As I continued with 'La Marseillaise' and 'God Save the Queen' they may have got the idea, but the reaction when I played the Polish National Anthem was most impressive; they gave us a resounding cheer and threw their caps all over the place!

As MM was not a competitor in the race across the Atlantic, it may have surprised some of the other ships at St Malo that the smallest ship there (MM) and the largest (DM) suddenly became 'best pals'. A number of interesting inter-ship competitions developed including a very memorable, but somewhat unevenly-matched 'tug of war' on the main deck of the DM. I was privileged, being quite a young chap at the time, to spend a lot of vodka-lubricated time onboard DM with MM's Master. Being invited by DM's Captain to climb to the top of her mainmast and 'blow my own trumpet' was quite something. I can't remember how high that is, but it must be about 160' or so and is quite a climb, but what a view!

Anyway, hope this recollection jogs some other happy memories - and I haven't even scratched the surface. Does anybody else remember the aftermath of the Blackwall Engineering non-'floating' drydock near disaster in December 1984 at Canary Wharf - as it used to be? Yes, I did a bit of volunteer 'shipkeeping' too. We had to get a 'scratch crew' together to motor her down to Shoreham and dock her there. The New Year came off the South Coast on the way, so we 'rang out the old and rang in the new' in the old-fashioned manner.

I will try to PM you after posting this, as I would love to get copies of your pictures.

As for MM now, well, she doesn't look too bad at all in the recent pictures; let us hope she gets back to sea before too long. They were beautiful ships and superb sailing vessels.

My, this is rather long, but what fun those days were!

Eas
20-01-13, 12:10
The present owner of the MM appreciates these pictures and vouches that she will sail again in her ( almost ) former glory soon enough .

dancrane
20-01-13, 18:23
The present owner of the MM appreciates these pictures and vouches that she will sail again in her ( almost ) former glory soon enough .

That's a tantalising first post, Eas...welcome to this forum...may we ask how you know about the former Malcolm Miller?

Eas
20-01-13, 18:40
That's a tantalising first post, Eas...welcome to this forum...may we ask how you know about the former Malcolm Miller?
Because I own her ...... And she still caries the original name .

caiman
20-01-13, 19:14
Eas- please keep us posted,I would love to sail on her again.
Cheers

Eas
20-01-13, 19:40
Eas- please keep us posted,I would love to sail on her again.
Cheers
Hopefully she should be ready for sea trials end of 2013 , if not Spring 2014 . Everybody commented how good she still looked in her last pictures in Falmouth , unfortunately she was not and it meant almost a complete reconstruction , when I muster how to send pictures on this site I will include some relevant ones
Cheers

dancrane
22-01-13, 17:01
Everybody commented how good she still looked in her last pictures in Falmouth , unfortunately she was not and it meant almost a complete reconstruction , when I muster how to send pictures on this site I will include some relevant ones
Cheers

Eas, you may be sure the readers here will be glued to any recent pictures/news/details of the restoration; it's very heartening to hear that the Malcolm Miller's revival is on track - I was afraid that she'd just sit on a mooring, mouldering for a few years, then disappear quietly to a scrapyard.

So...the very impressive, glamorous photographs of her in Helena C guise, hid trouble in her underlying construction? I suppose then, the fire in the summer of 2008, was a blessing in disguise?

Well done, for restoring her original name. Thank you for joining the forum, best of luck with the work!

Eas
22-01-13, 17:34
Dancrane , appearances can be missleading as we all know . I guess she was converted to a yacht standard with disregard to shipbuilding practices and I believe this led to her new owner to abandon the Helena C conversion to a private yacht for a cruise around the world. ( it could have not been done unless starting from gutting the vessel and starting on a sound platform ). From what I have seen the fire in 2008 had damaged the upper deck cabins , galley etc. " a blessing in disguise ?" maybe that was the last drop that made the glass overfill .......There are a lot of rumors circulating .the fact remains that the vessel is there and is being worked on .
if you do send me your e mail address I will send you some relevant pictures and then you can post them . I confess I am not good with modern day gadgets .....

CharlieChan
02-02-13, 11:11
Hello Eas.
I have the most up to date contact list of schooner folk. It fell upon me to organise last year's reunion in Portsmouth last September.
There is a facebookpage with lots of old photos.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/
my email address is wingninchan@yahoo.com. If can you send me any photos, then I will be very happy to post them on facebook, where the many old schooner folk will be overjoyed with gossip.
And thanks for rescuing her.
If you want to know anything about the hidden moldy bits of the ship, then I am always in contact with nearly all the old bosuns, engineers, chief officers, captains,and hard core old volunteers. We have, together, over hundreds of thousands of days living and working on the Miller and the Churchill. In my youth, I personally spent over 400 days on both, especially when I should have been at university.
I sincerely hope you get to read this post

CharlieChan
05-02-13, 16:53
Hello Eas
Thanks for keeping us updated
I have sent you a message to you.
Hope it gets to you

Best Regards

PIKEYBOY
12-05-13, 15:27
Eas,

I heard that MM had been towed to Poland. Is that correct or is she still on the FAL.

Regards

Eas
12-05-13, 19:50
Pikeyboy if you read back you would have had the confirmation that indeed she was towed to Gdansk Poland , where she still lies being worked on . That happened in January 2012 .
She is progressing well , maybe not as well as I would have hopped , but nevertheless a lot of work went into the hull so far, I can at least say that her steel works are almost completed and the hull was sandblasted from top to bottom , all rivets checked and sand blasting is taking place as I am writing now in her interior .
Unfortunately as she is covered it makes no sense to photograph her ( and that is for the benefit of the rest of the team wanting to know what is happening ) . However by the end of June she should come out of her canvas tent and moved in a hall to be vacated for her next winter while working on her decks and interior . When she will be moved I will be able to take pictures of what she looks like in her new disguise ........

bigwow
12-05-13, 20:58
I look forward to the progress pics in due course.

PIKEYBOY
13-05-13, 17:11
Eas,

Many thanks for the update. I have sailed many times on MM and SWC. SO,so glad she is not being scrapped.I look forward to seeing any photos as and when they become available.I have such fond memories of her.

Robert Wilson
14-05-13, 19:30
Hello Eas.
I have the most up to date contact list of schooner folk. It fell upon me to organise last year's reunion in Portsmouth last September.
There is a facebookpage with lots of old photos.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/
my email address is wingninchan@yahoo.com. If can you send me any photos, then I will be very happy to post them on facebook, where the many old schooner folk will be overjoyed with gossip.
And thanks for rescuing her.
If you want to know anything about the hidden moldy bits of the ship, then I am always in contact with nearly all the old bosuns, engineers, chief officers, captains,and hard core old volunteers. We have, together, over hundreds of thousands of days living and working on the Miller and the Churchill. In my youth, I personally spent over 400 days on both, especially when I should have been at university.
I sincerely hope you get to read this post

Hello there - just found this post. WONDERFUL, and good luck to the restorer.
If you (CC) are in touch with the olds, please remember me to Jim the Bosun. He was on the Churchill for my first cruise Nov '68, and then the Miller both cruises (March & October) '69
He may remember our rather epic spell on the bowsprit off Porthcurno, stowing a fly-away jib. We were both drenched from the bowsprit digging into the Atlantic rollers.
And he may also remember me TWICE letting slip the Main Gaff Halyard (during his lunch break) He was NOT happy. "Stupid Watch Leader" would have been his polite reaction!
I have some photos of him - verry rare achievement!
I'd like to keep in touch with the crews of old, is there a website?

Many thanks,
Robert Wilson

simon barefoot
14-05-13, 19:43
I crewed on her in March/April 1991, from Falmouth to Roscoff (but not, it was too rough to enter the harbour), back up to Cork (again, too rough to enter), over to Milford (got in there, even rougher but in a different way... a girl followed me into the gents and said her and her mate would 'do' all 30 odd of us for a tenner each!!). From there to Douglas, then onto Oban, in sleet showers.
Amazing fun!

onesea
14-05-13, 19:45
FOr those that are intrested
https://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/
Often has info on it..

CharlieChan
02-06-13, 10:04
Hello Robert
There is a page on facebook
search for Malcolm Miller and Winston Churchill.
We have a reunion in October 2013
Best Regards

Charlie Chan

Robert Wilson
02-06-13, 20:39
Hello Robert
There is a page on facebook
search for Malcolm Miller and Winston Churchill.
We have a reunion in October 2013
Best Regards

Charlie Chan

I'll investigate, thanks.
Have a great reunion, if I can't make it.

Charles Weaver
02-07-13, 16:26
Beautiful pictures. Have you got any bigger ones? Charles

CharlieChan
28-09-13, 12:01
Schooner reunion
19th October, Portsmouth.
All welcome

CharlieChan
26-11-13, 16:43
THe Malcolm Miller will be back in the water by June 2104

Woodlouse
26-11-13, 16:47
THe Malcolm Miller will be back in the water by June 2104

Should we hold our breaths?

CharlieChan
26-11-13, 16:50
Pictures available on the facebbok site showing the progress

dancrane
26-11-13, 17:40
Sounds like very good news. Could you give us a link to the site?

CharlieChan
26-11-13, 18:40
somewhere in the earlier threadss

dancrane
31-05-14, 16:50
THe Malcolm Miller will be back in the water by June 2104

I'm guessing Charlie Chan meant June 2014...which is tomorrow.

I never got to grips with the Facebook following for this vessel...

...does anyone know if indeed she's on the point of sailing again?

Oscar Romeo Romeo
22-06-14, 20:28
Hello!

My apologies for reviving a quiet topic, but I feel I must do this as the subject is of a rather personal matter and provides a little trivia on the Malcolm Miller a few of you I hope may find interesting.

My father often sailed on the Miller, and throughout my life has frequently spoken of her with great admiration. In July of 1983, me elder sister was Christened on the Malcolm Miller, and shortly after her name was engraved on the ship's bell. Below are some photographs from my sister Jenny's Christening, currently held in a frame atop the stairs at home.

http://i.imgur.com/VQnhtVJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BTghli5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n8s2pjA.jpg

I was not born for another two years so naturally, I have no memory of this event as I did not yet exist. However, I have heard about this occasion many a time and know the details very well. So here we are thirty-one years later, and my sister Jenny is soon to be wed. After much searching, I have found my way to this forum and was quite pleased to see this thread. Jenny's wedding is soon, and as her little brother I feel I should do the right thing and help make her wedding day that extra bit special, also to make up for the countless times I have carried out my other duties of being a little brother, that is to see, be the irritating juvenile man I am to the fullest for the sake of good humour and sibling rivalry, but in August on her wedding day such actions will be kept at bay and I'll do my best to behave and be a good little brother. I am posting here because it is so far the best I have managed to find someone who is in contact with the current owner/s of the Malcolm Miller, and I have a request,

I would very much like to borrow the ship's bell for a few days, the same bell that bears my Sister's name. It may seem an odd request, but I feel it would be appropriate to have the bell present for her wedding. I understand it is a tremendous request for a stranger to make, and I would happily pay in full for insured postage and shipping. Not only would this be a deeply significant gesture just to have the Bell present for Jenny's wedding, but it would also be fantastic for my Father and Mother to once again see the Bell.

I thankyou for taking the time to read this post and with great anticipation await a reply. In the mean time if anyone would like more detail concerning my sister's Christening, or just a few tales from the Malcolm Miller, I can request my Father to spend some time telling you all a tale or two, I can assure you he has many and can speak with great fondness o his days aboard the Malcolm Miller.

Romeo
23-06-14, 20:17
I think the bell was not sold with the ship. Try contacting www.tallships.org who I think still have it.

[info from SWC and MM facebook page, post on 2 March 2014: https://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/

CharlieChan
23-06-14, 21:39
Hello ORR. Do Please contact me and I will tell all about the bell.
I sent you a private message

CharlieChan
23-06-14, 21:44
have sent pm

CharlieChan
23-06-14, 21:52
Hello ORR
THis is your Dad in August 1982

4346143462

Oscar Romeo Romeo
24-06-14, 18:45
I posted that with a dram of whisky in my hand and the thought this might be a shot so long I'd never hear anything. What a wonderful result! CharlieChan I have sent you an e-mail in reply to your PM. Romeo, thankyou for your suggestion, I'll make contact with tallships.org and see where that takes me.

wklein
02-07-14, 21:18
Malcolm Miller is being rebuilt in Poland and masts are being restepped this august.

dancrane
02-07-14, 21:35
Thanks for that information, Wklein. Any chance of some background on when she left Falmouth, and who owns her now, and what the plan is for her?

PHY
27-11-14, 13:50
Malcolm Miller is en route to Plymouth (eta 19.30 today) & on to Falmouth then the Mediterranean - she has had an extensive refit in Poland & looks magnificent!!

dancrane
27-11-14, 14:11
Photos, photos please!

PHY
27-11-14, 16:50
No idea how to put them on! But if you go to: fleetmon.com & click on top left then on search & put in Malcolm Miller you can track her + get 7 brilliant photos in Kiel canal

FWB
27-11-14, 17:07
There is a painful video of the refit here http://vimeo.com/103060035 but it goes blank for me after 5 minutes.

caiman
27-11-14, 21:32
The video went blank for me too.Early in the video,the 'accomodation' had 'round' doors.Also I could'nt see any rivits on the hull.Is this definatly the MM,and not the SWC?Please help me eradicate my ignorence.(well,at least in this matter)
Cheers

wklein
27-11-14, 22:12
Boat is in Plymouth but not for long due to the unseasonal easterly winds they are keen to head south. Boat is incredible and very quick.

PHY
28-11-14, 00:34
This video is definitely the MM: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TkeYHathmyk

dancrane
29-11-14, 11:41
I had no luck with the video, but there are a couple of nice small pictures from recent days, here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?415017-Malcolm-Miller

She looks terrific. I'm glad she has retained conventionally-furled sails rather than installing in-mast furlers. I daresay the masts are original and wouldn't accommodate rollers.

Looks like a very happy ending, after a long period of doubt. :D

SimbaDog
29-11-14, 16:58
Moored about 100m from me, beatiful looking yacht :encouragement:

JaVa
15-05-17, 15:45
The MM will be in Portsmouth Harbour this weekend. An event has been created here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/30680956784/
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?415017-Malcolm-Miller#dxpRR3Y0w5omzWmE.99

CharlieChan
27-04-18, 17:51
Here is information about the Oral History project of the Malcolm Miller and Sir Winston Churchill for the schooner obsessed:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/oral-history-project-sail-training-ships-sir-winston-churchill-chan/

CharlieChan
27-04-18, 18:04
Hello Ves. Just sent you a message . hope you get to read it. Charlie Chan