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Catweasel
30-04-11, 21:04
wasn't sure if I this belongs here or the PBO forum but I plumped for here as I'll be primilary single handed..

given that a sea anchor is a "must have"??? is there a "must have" model? the boat's a Contessa 26.

I've done a search here and the series drogue keeps coming up. Is that "the one"? or do opinions vary greatly?

I'm, as you may have gathered, a newbie, and hope to learn from you guys before I commit to what may be a 250 purchase.

thanks, again )

Catweasel AKA Tim

Lady Campanula
30-04-11, 22:32
Tim,

Read 'The Drag Device Database' ( look here (http://www.dddb.com/) ) and recognise that you can make your own Jordan Pattern Series Drogue, as do many others.

A certain Roger Taylor insists he would not go to sea in his 21' 'Ming Ming' without one.

It can cost you as little as $50 in materials.

:)

Tahitibelle
02-05-11, 19:55
It has been said that dragging a milk crate from the stern on a 100m nylon wharp, with a couple of metres of chain at the end to drag it down works well and has the advantage of a place to store your booze in the meantime. On a personal note I shall go for the drogue solution and all the parts and info needed to make one up or buy ready made are available by entering Jordan Series Drogue on Ebay

BlackPig
03-05-11, 09:41
46 material for 100 cones, + braided line 94 + shackles 6 + thimbles 8
119 for 100 ready made cones +

how to do it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L23MdzCbx2Y

Catweasel
03-05-11, 12:38
I was mixing up a sea anchor with a drogue. I think I am after a sea-anchor (bow to wind, hove to) rather than a drogue (dragged).

If you had to have one, or the other, which one would it be?

Seems to be a sea-anchor is more important (but both would be great).

helixkimara
03-05-11, 19:31
I was mixing up a sea anchor with a drogue. I think I am after a sea-anchor (bow to wind, hove to) rather than a drogue (dragged).

If you had to have one, or the other, which one would it be?

Seems to be a sea-anchor is more important (but both would be great).

DROGUE. Jordan series drogue

Fascadale
03-05-11, 21:27
There are lengthy discussions about Jordan Series Drogues here (http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252743) and here (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/53639-don-jordan-jordan-series-drogue.html)

I started making one during the winter. I bought 100 ready made drogulets, the rope and some stainless steel thimbles.

So far I have managed to learn how to splice braid on braid and have completed 6 hard eyes and two soft eyes. About five hours work. I plan to thread on the droguelets next winter.

A lot of work for a bit of kit I hope i never have to use.

A fellow club member who completed his 100 droguelet JSD this winter was managing to thread on about 20 droguelets an hour by the time he finished.

Catweasel
03-05-11, 21:37
what made you guys plump for the drogue and not a sea anchor?

Fascadale
03-05-11, 22:09
Drogue versus sea anchor, off the bow, off the stern or angled off the bow Pardy fashion.

Its a big subject. I read everything I could find on the subject, thought about it a bit, read the stuff all again and after a few months decided on the JSD.

Never having been at sea in a really big storm my decision was certainly not based on experience.

Simply put I prefer the idea of the boat in a storm, with the drogue out the stern, the boat going in the same direction as the sea. I suspect this will be less stressful on the boat than lying to something off the bow with the seas then head on which I would expect to be more forceful.

I prefer the idea of multiple drogulets to one parachute. The long drogue line should never come completely out of the water as the single parachute might. The long drogue line should thus exert a constant force.

The parachute system is strongly recommended by some such as Mr VO5 in this thread (w.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252743) and the Pardy's system is backed by years at sea and thousands of miles of sailing.

helixkimara
04-05-11, 07:26
Drogue versus sea anchor, off the bow, off the stern or angled off the bow Pardy fashion.

Its a big subject. I read everything I could find on the subject, thought about it a bit, read the stuff all again and after a few months decided on the JSD.

Never having been at sea in a really big storm my decision was certainly not based on experience.

Simply put I prefer the idea of the boat in a storm, with the drogue out the stern, the boat going in the same direction as the sea. I suspect this will be less stressful on the boat than lying to something off the bow with the seas then head on which I would expect to be more forceful.

I prefer the idea of multiple drogulets to one parachute. The long drogue line should never come completely out of the water as the single parachute might. The long drogue line should thus exert a constant force.

The parachute system is strongly recommended by some such as Mr VO5 in this thread (w.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252743) and the Pardy's system is backed by years at sea and thousands of miles of sailing.

As above. also read Roger Taylors account of using the JSD in his latest book. The sea anchor also snatching a huge load. Bow into the wind may create massive slewing in heavy sea's. Just remember what its like in a very windy bay on anchor. Better have either, than none. These are only my opinions from other peoples opinions, never used either
regards

Noddy
04-05-11, 11:52
I was mixing up a sea anchor with a drogue. I think I am after a sea-anchor (bow to wind, hove to) rather than a drogue (dragged).

If you had to have one, or the other, which one would it be?

Seems to be a sea-anchor is more important (but both would be great).

I reckon they are two very different things which are used differently. All they have in common is that you throw them over the side when you get scared:

Sea Anchor: big parachute type jobbie on a long warp off the bow (long warp to stop vertical shockloads). It stops you dead so you don't blow down onto a lee shore. I believe they are more commonly used in the Pacific and multihull sailors seem to like them (although the parachute manufacturers reckon it works for all vessels). I also understand that fishing vessells will use their full nets as a sea anchor while the storm blows over.

Drogue: smaller - some sort of drag device to help keep the boat under control directionally and to stop you accelerating into the back of the next wave. I used a milk crate (on a 30ft cat) and it worked very well - keeping me running before the seas without undue surfing down the waves. (I had a parachute sea anchor on board but no bottle left to deploy it). I reckon the trick is to match your speed with the waves.

The Jordan Series drogue seems to have some shock absorbing qualities but I reckon you can do that with a long stretchy rope. Probably won't fail all at once though - they seem ideal. However, if you have faith in it and therefore confidence that is half the battle.

Drogue vs Anchor: Never deployed the anchor so can't comment but it seems that with the anchor you are in the bad weather for less time as the storm blows over you. With the drogue you run before it so it is with you for longer.

Two last points - You don't want a drogue off the bow as you may get pushed back onto your rudders and break them (I've got 2). Finally chafe is the enemy in these setups, heavy loads and everything moving.

Lots of experience on this forum though! So no right answers!
Regards
Paul

evantica
20-11-11, 08:58
I'm not talking of expirience in this subject. Just my own common sense. I would prefer the Sea anchor, head on to the wind and sea. Becasue a boat is meant to meet the waves and it's better to let the depression pass over me, than ran with the storm = longer time.

junkrig
21-11-11, 07:30
I have no experience with either & can only add what I have found out from reasearch, the JSD appears to be the better alternative if you had to chose one, for the reasons mentioned above. Although you do need the sea room.

About the JSD....someone told me it can not be deployed in shallow water? Anyone know about that?

cheers

jesterchallenger
22-11-11, 17:17
Hi Tim,
Other forumites will no doubt cover the drogue v sea anchor debate, I've only ever used a drogue. I've never felt brave ebough to try the Pardey sea anchor technique of lying abeam to the waves, but it seems to work for them.
I deployed my JSD on the way back from Faial last summer - blowing about 50 knots (estimated, the wind transducer blew off!) and a fair sea running. The boat hit 14 knots with just a storm jib so I decided to have a go with the drogue. To be honest I think I'd have been fine without it but it was too good an opportunity to miss having a trial run in realistic conditions!
Easy to deploy and easy to recover, it worked brilliantly and slowed the boatspeed to 1 - 2 knots dead downwind under bare poles. Anti chafe is VERY important, so this needs to be thought through very thoroughly - loads are high. The boat felt snug and safe, although wet. Hit by a big breaker meant that water squirted through the very small gaps in the washboards with considerable force (hitting the main bulkhead 10ft away!), so it's really irritating trying to keep everything dry.
So yes, I would never go offshore without my Jordan Series Drogue - good piece of kit and well worth the money.
Hope that helps
Duncan

parsifal
22-11-11, 17:44
I was reading the Pardey's 'Storm Tactics' last night and their method of a sea anchor attached to the bow, with a line from the anchor warp back to the cockpit for adjustment, seems very logical. And their ideas have the benefit of having been developed from practical experience.

tarik
23-11-11, 17:45
Hi guys,


I seem to remember reading in one of the books/articles about using a builders heavy duty sand bag secured with a couple of warps to the handles led from the bow back to the stern.

Anybody got any views re this and what size boat is it likely to work on??

Many thanks for all replies.


David

c2518
24-11-11, 04:43
I seem to recall this is what Roger Taylor used when he lost his Jordan Series Drogue. I will have a look at his book tonight and confirm.