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philip17
03-07-11, 19:02
I have recently changed my yacht registration from SSR on UK Register to Part 1 on Jersey Register. The reasons for transfering to Part 1 was to have a world accepted registration documentation which proves ownership and the reason for Jersey was to keep the name of the boat and 10 year renewal.
I wintered in Greece and cleared out in Simi for Turkey 2 months ago - no problem with new registration. I am now looking to clear back into Greece but have been alerted by a post on noonsite that CI registered boats are not accepted as EU registered and require a transit log and temporary importation. This in itself would not be a great inconvenience apart from the fact that if you are a EU resident (which I am) then the TI will be for 1 month only!!!! not 18 months if I was a non-EU resident. I think I can understand the reasoning behind this regulation if I was trying to import the yacht without paying VAT but in my case VAT has already been paid in Sweden when I purchased the boat.
I have searched for information regarding the position of a EU VAT paid boat owned by a EU resident but flagged in a non-EU country but cannot find any help. Can anyone shine some light on this conundrum?
As I intend to winter in Greece again this year it looks like I might have to cancel my Jersey Registration and re-register on UK SSR but even that does not look so simple as it appears that you cannot re-apply online if you have been previously registered (I have emailed MCA for advice on how I can re-register on SSR but I do not expect an early response so again any advice would be greatly appreciated

Tranona
03-07-11, 20:51
Yes, as you have found out, there are distinct disadvantages to having a Jersey registration. From the Greek point of view you are a non EU boat. There is little advantage in registering in Jersey. The SSR is fully accepted as proof of flag state. Although a Part 1 registry either CI or UK appears to have advantages, in reality they are illusory. They are not proof of ownership - only a formal registered record of your ownership. Your title document is your Bill of Sale which shows you have legally acquired your boat. There is no compulsion to inform the registry of any change in ownership so a boat could be owned by a person different from that recorded on the register. The only significant advantage of a Part 1 is that allows others to register a charge against your boat if you wish to use it as security for finance. If you do not need this facility an SSR registration is perfectly acceptable.

However, if you do want to keep a Part 1 and be treated as an EU flagged boat then transfer to the UK register.

There is no connection between VAT and registration.

Talbot
04-07-11, 08:46
The fact that you paid VAT in sweden is irrelevant to the EU. The VAT has to be paid in an EU country,
Handover of a vessel that was previously EU vat paid, needs to be done in an EU country to an EU resident in order for the VAT status to be maintained.

Sounds like you would have been better off maintaining Swedish registration.

jimbaerselman
04-07-11, 08:46
There is no connection between VAT and registration. Speak with the Jersey registration authority about this. If the vessel is VAT paid, it doesn't matter where it is registered. It has been imported to the EU, and is allowed free circulation, as long as it hasn't subsequently changed hands while berthed outside the EU (ie, in the Channel Islands!) or hasn't been outside the EU for longer than 3 years (round the worlder's, note!)

You will find that if you have CI registration, you will be asked for proof of VAT payment from time to time. If you have the original bill of sale showing VAT, and subsequent bills of sale showing that the vessel changed hands when it was berthed within the EU, you should be covered.

Tranona
04-07-11, 08:59
Don't think this is an EU wide issue. It is not a case of temporary importation of a non EU boat, but the Greek attitude to non EU boats for the purposes of a cruising log. This does not apply to an EU registered boat which is treated the same way as a Greek boat and only needs a DEKPA.

As the OP has pointed out the log only has a life of one month. Probably no logic or reason - just reality. I met a guy with a Guernsey registered boat in Corfu with exactly the same problem - loads of hassle. Same solution. Register on the SSR.

philip17
04-07-11, 10:10
Thanks guys for posts and input, I agree that it is probably a Greek recognition problem rather than an EU wide issue.
In response to Talbot - I do not understand the implication because Sweden has been in the EU since 1995 and I paid 25% VAT in Sweden in 2009 and as I am not a Swedish national I could not retain the Swedish Registration.
I think we all agree that re-registration on UK SSR is the answer, hopefully I can clear back into Greece in a port with my existing DEKPA that doesn't realise my British registration is non eu so that will give me the time to get the SSR registered and forwarded out to me, otherwise I'm going to have to get it done in a month.

Talbot
04-07-11, 11:18
In response to Talbot - I do not understand the implication because Sweden has been in the EU since 1995 and I paid 25% VAT in Sweden in 2009 and as I am not a Swedish national I could not retain the Swedish Registration.

Yes my mistake - I thought Sweden had the same status as Norway - that is a member of the EAA but not EU. Thus your VAT status should be valid throughout the EU if you can get the SSR.

Tranona
04-07-11, 11:40
Thanks guys for posts and input, I agree that it is probably a Greek recognition problem rather than an EU wide issue.
In response to Talbot - I do not understand the implication because Sweden has been in the EU since 1995 and I paid 25% VAT in Sweden in 2009 and as I am not a Swedish national I could not retain the Swedish Registration.
I think we all agree that re-registration on UK SSR is the answer, hopefully I can clear back into Greece in a port with my existing DEKPA that doesn't realise my British registration is non eu so that will give me the time to get the SSR registered and forwarded out to me, otherwise I'm going to have to get it done in a month.
Just be aware there is currently a backlog of about a month at Cardiff, so might be worth calling them rather than doing on line.

jimbaerselman
04-07-11, 21:57
Don't think this is an EU wide issue. It is not a case of temporary importation of a non EU boat, but the Greek attitude to non EU boats for the purposes of a cruising log. This does not apply to an EU registered boat which is treated the same way as a Greek boat and only needs a DEKPA.

As the OP has pointed out the log only has a life of one month. Probably no logic or reason - just reality. I met a guy with a Guernsey registered boat in Corfu with exactly the same problem - loads of hassle. Same solution. Register on the SSR.
Every EU country should recognise that a VAT paid boat is allowed free circulation, irrespective of flag. I am aware that some US flagged vessels carrying a CE mark, having paid VAT, now cruise Greece without a transit log, using a DEKPA.

The "one month" rule (I believe it now is, or is proposed to be, 2 months) applies to citizens of the EU who use boats which are not VAT paid, rather than not EU registered. Having said that, local customs officers at the port of entry may not always understand the niceties of the situation.

As I have said before, ask the Jersey register people about this. They are familiar with the problem.

Mad Pad
10-07-11, 14:16
We had the same issue(in Corfu)with a Guernsey registration (VAT paid in Ireland) and in the end just reregisterd the yacht in London.The Guernsey registration is accepted in Cardiff so no need for a survey.Pity to loose the blue book though and end up with a horrid laminated thing!

philip17
12-07-11, 18:42
Thanks again guys for the input, I have managed to "sneak" back into Greece via an out of the way port of entry with my DEKPA - even had to visit the customs (as the port police were not really experienced in clearing in a yacht) but he took one look at the British flag and said you do not need to see me - great!.
So hopefully if I can keep away from Samos for a couple of months then my SSR will be issued ok. I will speak to the Jersey Registry and see if they can be of help but as we all no it all depends on the interpretation of the law by the Port Police/Customs at the time.
When I am well clear of the area i will post the POE that I cleared into as it may help others.
Malcolm