View Full Version : Join the RYA fight for red diesel
Join the RYA fight for red diesel and fill in the Red Diesel Consultation Questionnaire <A target="_blank" HREF=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BroadsandEastcoastBoating/>Broads & East Coast Boating (http://www.rya.org.uk/legal.asp?contentID=3021481>here</A>
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done mine
come the revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Do they really mean an increase in diesel price by 95p per litre. I though it was an increase TO 95p.
Could open new dimension to petrol vs diesel. Would make marine petrol cheaper than diesel (I buy petrol at Berthon at 83p per litre)
<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
Why should we have to join the RYA to fight the diesel rise. Why can't they include everyone who boats, big or small, rich or poor. Whenever we have had anything to do with RYA types our cockney accents have engendered snotty noses and disparaging looks. Being a millionare does not mean I have to have a big boat and I,m still very happy with my 27 foot, 27 year old boat and still want cheap diesel....so there
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1. join, fall in, get together -- become part of; become a member of a group or organization; "He joined the Communist Party as a young man"
2. join, bring together -- cause to become joined or linked
2 being used here. Fill in questionaire, not pay to become member <s>
<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
"Why should we have to join the RYA to fight the diesel rise" ????
Where does it mention you have to join the RYA organisation just to fill in the questionnaire?
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BroadsandEastcoastBoating/>Broads & East Coast Boating</A>
Done mine???
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You stated
"Join the RYA fight for red diesel"
misread?
<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
Done mine.
<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>Kelisha</A> I never snub anyone accidentally
TheBoatman
09-02-04, 00:08
Done mine but was a little disappointed?
As a yacht club member and someone who is responsible for 4 boats I feel cheated?
As far as the RYA are concerned I only use 600 ltrs / year when in fact I use closer to 2500.
I emailed the RYA Chief Exec and told him so!
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Haven't filled mine in, can't wait for UK red diesel to go up to 95p/litre. Then I can adopt that same smug self-satisfied look peeps here give me when I tell them I keep my boat in Holland and have to pay 52p/litre for the proper white road stuff! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>A convert to steel boats and displacement cruising - the only way to go</font color=blue>
i suppose u go to Belgium to get yours?????????? smuggy & buy d/ free as well ?.
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Done, any chance you guys can do mine in return /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
cheers
peter
<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance
Think they forgot 1 option, buying diesel from farmers who will still get cheap diesel
no matter what IMHO.
(I am ignoring colour of diesel here)
BTW i filled it in as well
<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks
Leyton
(EXTAR Solutions - Software that works for you)
Dave_Snelson
09-02-04, 09:53
Done! Registered Glaslyn Marine (chandlers) as excellent.
<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>
MedDreamer
09-02-04, 10:17
Why not a campaign to REDUCE the price of marine petrol to the same level then?
Surely any arguement supporting reduced rate diesel applies to petrol?
I am certainly no socialist but it does seem a little bit odd that those with bigger boats actually benefit the most from this concession. As I say I am no socialist but underneath it all the Chancellor is and I am sure the above point is not lost on him. - add to this the governments tactic of whenever possible using the "green" arguement to justify new taxation and one can only conclude that the recreational boater is right in the middle of the Treasurygunsight.
Good luck but you are flogging a dead horse IMHO.
I wonder whats motivated the RYA in this then? Having hung the MoBo community on Windermere out to dry have they decided the the Stinkies are important? or is it the case that they are responding to their Yottie members who don't like the idea of paying full price for their five gallons a year!!
Martyn
(Bit cynical this morning aren't I - sorry about that but I think the above represents the real world)
<hr width=100% size=1>The Dream is Alive
Does anyone know the history of why we have had diesel so cheap for so long?
I am very upset about the pending price rise, it will completely de-value my boat and will probably end my boating days to be honest!
The only thing that confuses my is why we have not been taxed in the first place?
<hr width=100% size=1>Alex
http://www.mad-als.com/temp/boat2.jpg
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mad-als.com>http://www.mad-als.com</A>
Well being on petrol, the questionnaire didnt seem to apply to me. I can fully understand why those presently benefiting from cheap fuel would like to keep it, and accept that if diesel goes up in price it will have a consequence on who can afford to use their boat. I suppose that may have ramifications on marinas, boat production etc etc, but in terms of EU wide fuel tax harmonisation,this cant be on strong ground. Quite what is the arguement that diesel leisure boaters in the UK should have tax reduced fuel? I can see the debate.. Uk farmers, yep good idea, UK marine industry, yes agreed, UK petrol leisure boaters, umm no fraid not-dont get it elsewhere in EU , Uk diesel leisure boaters, er... I dont mind two hoots if diesel leisure boaters get tax efficient fuel, but out of interest, what is the reason?
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I've heard various explanations for this over the years, including the suggestion that it was a "thank you" to private yacht owners after Dunkirk. A nice story, but it sems unlikely, somehow.
I suspect that the truth is more prosaic - i.e. that in the old days, (by which I mean pre WW2) private yachtsmen would fill up their boats at the same pumps as commercial sailors - fishermen and the like, who were exempted from tax because, like farmers, it related to their livelihood - and the amount of tax foregone in consequence was so trivial that the government didn't bother about it. In those days, people also had bizarre things like paraffin-powered engines in boats (which I assume was also untaxed) but by and large, didn't have petrol engines and, if they did, brought it from a garage in cans, paid tax and cursed inwardly.
Fast forward to today (or recently, anyway) and we have a situation, which has grown over the years without ever being formalised, whereby lots of people put large quantities of tax free diesel in their boats and the existence of the EU means that this state of affairs needs to be categorised. Hence "special exemptions" for leisure boaters, requiring "regular review".
Logically, it doesn't make sense and I suspect that it will go one day (although I think I'm right in saying that the UK govt. has just successfully negotiated an extension to the exemption?). A pity; I don't have a strong axe to grind about this one way or the other, as my pride and joy runs on petrol, and I cough up with a weary smile on my face. However, I aspire to own a boat big enough to need diesels one day - which will undoubtedly mark the day on which the exemption will be rescinded. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
I really hope the price does not go up, believe me!!
But what is our defence? Is our argument simply that we like it cheaper? Everything is taxed in this day and age, how are we going to stop this happening?
Maybe we should be pleased that we have got away with it thus far.... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
Ah well, we will wait and see. Looks like my second choice of flying a helicopter may not be so far away if I have to sell the boat...
<hr width=100% size=1>Alex
http://www.mad-als.com/temp/boat2.jpg
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mad-als.com>http://www.mad-als.com</A>
It's a difficult one to argue against. As you say, it won't impress many people, other than fellow boaters, to be told that we like paying less for fuel and therefore that it should continue to be tax free. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
I suspect that this is the reason why public debate and lobbying has mostly revolved round the damage that would be done to the economy by a sharp downturn in the boating industry - lots of people out of work, many of them in the South East etc. etc. Politicians have long memories (except when it suits them /forums/images/icons/wink.gif) and it may be that some of the old timers remember the fall out from increasing VAT on boats as a luxury item in the 70's.
But really, and trying to be dispassionate about it, there's no logic to tax free diesel for leisure boaters, so I guess we should enjoy it whilst we can, and hope that it continues to be a sensitive subject for politicians for some time to come.
You wouldn't enjoy helicopters, btw: fast, noisy things that pitch and jerk around, making you feel ill and emptying your wallet. On the other hand...............
<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
Done mine and sent link to all in my club.
:-)
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hi now they are on the database you can add votes for them
peter
<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance
Why not just make the diesel for boats and cars/trucks the same in UK as it is in the rest of europe? Diesel for farmers and fishing boats in Europe is tax free, why should liesure boats have tax free diesel? Has it stopped the boating industries in Holland or France?
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how many farmer boat owners have Bowsers?
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Where?
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longjohnsilver
09-02-04, 19:33
Bloody foreigner, keep your nose out of this domestic issue! Nowt to do with you!
PS Dollar still weakening, should make diesel even cheaper, shame about our overseas workers paid in greenbacks! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
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Just watch yer lip you! Or I\ll be asking for donations in five gallon containers when you visit! 80 euro cents a litre in Spain. But the dollar is taking a real bashing!!
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I doubt that many here will have their boats up for sale due to harmonization of fuel duties.
I would guess that the annual fuel bill of most is not a large percentage of the following.
Insurance
Maintaince
Mooring fees
Gadgets bought
Depreciation
Interest on any loan payments
Income lost when out on boat when should have been at work etc.
<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.
Hmm, not sure about that one:
Insurance - £500
Maintaince - £1500
Mooring fees - £3700 (big one)
Gadgets bought - None
Depreciation - None I hope...../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Interest on any loan payments - None
Income lost when out on boat when should have been at work etc. - None
Fuel at new price at least £2000 per year! /forums/images/icons/frown.gif It is definitely going to hurt, I pay less the £1k per annum at the moment!
Is it not a case of all boat owners vote Labour out and that will be the end of it/forums/images/icons/wink.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>Alex
http://www.mad-als.com/temp/boat2.jpg
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mad-als.com>http://www.mad-als.com</A>
MedDreamer
09-02-04, 21:16
Don't want to be a pedantic accountant here but there is a funding cost to your boat. ie the amount your money would be earning if you had invested it rather than used it to purchase your boat.
I know, I know I need to get out more................................
Martyn
<hr width=100% size=1>The Dream is Alive
Axshually,
I think red diesel exemption was more the difficulty in fitting in a taxed area between subsidised fishermen and ships which could/can bunker anywhere in the world. They certainly will not fill up in a taxed area so it makes more sense to have the business here than export it. The same applies, but obviously to a lesser extent, with avgas for planes. If they're not transocean, they can choose where to refuel on their itinery.
Now that the greenies have arisen and probably a lot more diesel is used for leisure, tax looks more inviting to the taxers and b***er the consequences. The real sting in the tail is, of course, our outlandishly high road fuel duty. It is only 10 years ago when we used to wonder how the French were able to afford so much for their car fuel - now it's cheap especially diesel.
If it hits 90p/Lit it would be worth our while nipping over to France to fill up - nice trip good food + wine and a spit in the face of G Brown but I suspect the real consequence would be quite a few of the mobos will just move their boats over to France and save on mooring costs as well. Although some raggies and others would applaud, I don't think the tax rake will be that much and it is worth pointing out that it is only the poorer (marginal in economic speak) boaters or those with smaller boats that will pay it anyway.
Ain't New Socialism great!
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MedDreamer
10-02-04, 19:36
I don't think that anyone would really cry out "Social Injustice" or point the finger at "new socialism" because a "poor" boatowner will carry an extra tax burden on his leisure activity.
In real terms "poor" cannot be used to describe anyone who has motorboating as a hobby. Look at the unfortunate Chinese workers being exploited for £1 a day - thats "poor" - they weren't out there gambling with their lives worrying about the price of diesel for recreational boaters.
I think we are loosing touch with reality if we feel too badly done to IMHO.
<hr width=100% size=1>The Dream is Alive
NO THEY FILL-UP IN BELGIUM
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longjohnsilver
10-02-04, 20:01
Wot the hell have they to do with the price of red diesel??!! Almost certainly illegal immigrants being exploited by triad gangs, also illegal!
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yes but did the landrover stuck in the sand (still) have number plates, were they driving with tax, ins, m.o.t, bald tyres et al
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powerskipper
10-02-04, 20:29
done one too
<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Filled in the form, not sure if i answered correctly to help save cheap diesel, can anybody tell me what the "correct answers" are??
Should I use alot of or a little fuel? etc...
The other choice is to fill up your "heating fuel tanks" with heating oil, very similar to diesel i understand, and say that the 1200 litre are for the Espacher!!!!
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My boat has a petrol outboard. I want 'tax reduced' petrol
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Filled it in for you (you never know) I will be back boating soon. However "no change" my vote, it's a minor cost to owning and running a boat - born free and taxed to death!
<hr width=100% size=1>Or then again...
Well wasn't that a stupid form; apart from anything else it wouldn't allow me to put in how much fuel I use - it only allows up to 10000 litres not the 27K I wanted to enter.
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"why should we have a concession on red diesel?" and how can we explain & support the requirement for it to remain, I think the answer to both these questions was in an earlier post explaining that it wasnt in fact a concession. as boats were not diesel engined road vehicles D.E.R.V. and therefore have been entitled to red diesel at the same price as other non DERVs
"How can we stand by our need to retain the price"? we are British boaters, and as an island we will be needed to support our "state of Europe" in acting as coastal intelligence etc when the Navy and Coastguard are amalgamated with the naval volunteer force (Dads Navy)and eventually become reduced in size and effectiveness.
Our fishing fleet has already been reduced by the EEC to virtually nothing and is certainly not of sufficient size to support our own edible fish requirements (we are an Island after all) so we should insist that finally our government, whichever one it will be, support us or face a very serious downturn in electors at the next General election and the removal of the british boat industry from the face of this Earth.
Somebody asked "has the fuel cost in Holland affected their boat industry"? the answer is no! it hasnt because, metal boat and barge builders and the like, now saturate the UK with their inadequate coastal products. They will feel the pinch however when we are all "burning our boats" as it were.
One further suggestion to add to the lobby an MP campaign. may I suggest that we ( the members of this Forum) purchase a pair of multi sized Dodgers, duly sign written, so that whoever wishes to "photograph Kings reach Tower" may do so, whilst passing the Palace of Westminster wearing a suitable slogun to the effect that the British Boaters will not accept any increase (other than normal inflation) being applied to red diesel. the Winner of the Kings reach photographic section or dressed overall outside Parliament or whatever competition will recieve a number of donated gallons of red diesel (we would of course have a whip round) with of course the true winners being us all.
We could of course have another dodger being carried around the UK coast, rolled up at time of passing as a Batton by participating boats, Gosh I feel a revolution coming on! :o)) whose going to be first ?
Rob
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
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