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pragmatist
29-08-04, 17:23
Just been out to lunch (well a BBQ in the rain actually - but that's the UK for you) and talked to old friends/neighbours just selling up and building house in Sardinia.

They are seriously NB but claim that acquaintances are spending 6 per night in nearby Sardinian marina. They also said "seize the day" (love to - where's the retirement fund - he's a property developer !). No idea what size of boat this was for.

But the big question on a wet Bank Holiday w/end is what kind of prices would one have to pay in the Mediterranean if you hate marinas, like anchoring, but accept that you have to visit marinas from time to time.

So please - anyone out there with experience of in-season costs and out of season costs ?

(Then all I have to do is convince HWMBO he _can_ take the dogs ! Fat chance but one should always dream on a wet Bank Holiday !)


<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

MedMan
29-08-04, 23:40
Prices vary wildly but generally speaking get less the further east you go. It also depends upon the time of year. If I had been foolish and/or desperate enough to go into a marina in NE Sardinia in August it could have cost me 60 per night plus water for my 10.7 metre boat. In Marmaris Marina it is 5 per night throughout the year. Croatian Marinas can be 20 per night but monthly and annual contracts are very heavily discounted. However, as there are so may anchorages there, my monthly bill for mooring during the season in Croatia was often less than 50.

There's only a handfull of marinas in Greece priced in a similar way to those in Croatia but you won't use them much as they are so few and far between. Harbour dues elsewhere are petty-cash figures so hardly worth worrying about but the officialdom involved in paying them can be a nightmare.




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pragmatist
30-08-04, 07:46
Thanks MedMan - sounds very encouraging - knowing where to avoid is one of the most important ones - our worst price in the UK was 35 for a night in Salterns, Poole and we could only stay 3 hours - it's a long story but I'd never go there again.

Looks as though in terms of summer costs we could save significantly on our annual UK bill of about 1800.

Do you have experience of winter costs ? Where do you like over-wintering and do you stay in the water or haul out ?



<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

boatmike
30-08-04, 08:07
60 per night! Phew! Glad I read this. Was thinking about going through the Canal du Midi next spring and leaving the boat in the Med somewhere winter 2005. Sardinia seemed reachable without too much trouble so was on the list. Not if it's that price though. Any alternative suggestions Medman?

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Metabarca
30-08-04, 09:01
Have a look here for Croation prices, including haul-out, etc.
Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html (http://www.aci-club.hr/>http://www.aci-club.hr/</A>
In)

ccscott49
30-08-04, 12:41
You can leave the boain sardinia very cheaply, but if you are tallking liveaboard, then you need somewhere with life in the winter, sardinia has very little if any! Dont even consider marinas in the ballearics, for winter or summer, malta is cheap. So is Almerimar and some more of the less glamarous marinas on the mainland. Barcelona can be cheap for smaller boats. But probably full now, not full for 18 meters though.

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pragmatist
30-08-04, 13:58
What do you mean by "life in the winter" ? Are we saying there's no local town ? No liveaboards ? Or no restaurants and night life ?

And what is wrong with the Balearics ? Is it cost or winter conditions or it gets booked up (I'm not looking at this winter - sadly) ? (Sorry but from this distance what may seem obvious to you isn't to me ! )

Thanks again to all of you answering - keep up the good work.



<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

ccscott49
30-08-04, 17:44
Very little in the way of anything open, as in restaurants etc. in Sardegna. The ballearics are great in the summer, there are a multitude of anchorages, so no probs there, marinas however are very expensive at anytime of the year and always very busy. There are a couple of places where you can load water cheaply, but not many you have to pay for it, no problem for me as I dont mind paying and also have a watyermaker. The mainlmand is also much cheaper for groceries.

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pragmatist
30-08-04, 18:02
Thanks CC. Pity about the Balearics - but guess trip and anchor would be nice - visited Minorca many years ago and liked it.

Hadn't intended to stay in Sardinia - it was simply that we met these friends yesterday who were singing its praises - HWMBO suggested the 6 per day might be per day per metre - which I pooh-poohed - 60 a day, sez I - plainly you know better !

What I, like many of us with the proverbial "planning the great escape from bricks and mortar" are looking at is "is it affordable ?" When we go, it isn't just for a year - it's till we're too old to sail and I'd hate to get part way down the line and find I'd underestimated costs. HWMBO would be grieved if he couldn't afford his vino after the marina fees !

Are you a permanent live-aboard ? How do you make it work for you ? (if you'd prefer to PM then please do) All info most welcome.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

MedMan
30-08-04, 23:44
The following is a breakdown of the Harbour Charges for my 10.7m boat for the last two years. It includes all charges for cruising and laying up. All the nights not mentioned were spent at anchor for free.


2002-03
16/04/2002 Croatian Harbour Authority Annual Permit 1,200.00KN
28/04/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Skradin - 2 nights 36.46
03/05/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Trogir - 1 night - 216.11 Kn 18.69
16/05/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Korcula - 1 night - 217.16 Kn 19.02
25/05/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Korcula - short stay - 103.00 Kn 103.00KN
13/06/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Dubrovnik - part payment for 1 night 73.53KN
13/06/2002 Harbour ACI Marina, Dubrovnik - part payment for1 night 13.57
17/06/2002 Greek Port Authority D.E.K.P.A. 29.35
17/06/2002 Greek Port Authority Permission to Stay 58.70
18/06/2002 Harbour Gouvia for 1 night - 29.50 19.48
30/06/2002 Harbour Levkas for 1 night - 25.84 25.84
05/07/2002 Cleopatra Marina Deposit (60%) for summer stay 300.00
05/07/2002 Greek Port Authority Hauling Tax 8.80
22/08/2002 Cleopatra Marina Balance for summer stay 194.27
02/09/2002 Harbour Poros for 1 night 4.15
10/09/2002 Harbour Zakinthos for 1 night 4.00
11/09/2002 Harbour Poros for 1 night 4.45
04/10/2002 Gouvia Marina 1 month - 209.08 134.51
21/10/2002 Gouvia Marina 5 months + lift out/in 1,407.49 913.5

Grand Total 1721.11



2003-04
09/04/2003 Gouvia Marina 5 extra days - 58.89 41.56
19/04/2003 Harbour Patras - minimum of 2 nights 27.90
30/04/2003 Corinth Canal Canal Fee 107.00
06/05/2003 Harbour Olympic Marine - 1 night 38.95
07/05/2003 Harbour Olympic Marine - 1 night 38.00
13/05/2003 Khalkis Bridge Fee to pass through bridge 17.79
02/06/2003 Harbour Mirina - Limnos 6.20
07/06/2003 Harbour Moudros - Limnos 3.47
13/06/2003 Harbour Mitilini - Lesbos 5.14
13/06/2003 Ayvalik Marina 365 days inc tax - 1,777,538,547 TL 775.25
27/06/2003 Ayvalik Marina Water & Electricity - 18, 550,051 TL 8.11

Grand Total 997.57

KN = Croatian Kuna


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boatmike
31-08-04, 11:31
No. I would certainly leave the boat and come back to the UK during winter so security and preferably hard standing ashore is important for peace of mind when eating Christmas dinner. Boat is a 37ft cat with 17ft beam. Any suggestions for a secure place to lift out overwinter? Plan would be to go leisurely through Canal du Midi then day sail down to somewhere 2005. Probable destination 2006 Croatia...

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boatmike
31-08-04, 11:44
Brilliant! Very useful information Medman... I am making quite a collection of your postings for when I get there myself. Where is the Cleopatra Marina please? So far I had thought to overwinter year 2 (2006) at Gouvia as I have been there before and would be happy to leave the boat there. What are your thoughts on Cleo v Gouvia?

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ccscott49
31-08-04, 12:35
I,m a permanent liveabvoard, but I work in the oilfield, so I have to leave the boat for a month at a time. I would have to use marinas, so I solved this problem by hiring a crew. His salary per week is about 2 nights in a marina in the summer around the spanish or ballearic coasts, plus he does the varnishing, cleaning etc. This way I can stay at anchor and save a lot of money. There are cheap spots around, but they are few and far between. I will send a PM, when I have time, as I,m in congo working at the moment. Bye

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MedMan
31-08-04, 22:27
Cleopatra Marina is at Preveza [38 55'N 20 47'E] but, despite its name, it is not a marina at all but a very large area of hard-standing and a travel hoist bay. It is very well run and is an ideal (and cheap) place to leave your boat when returning to the UK. By contrast, Gouvia is a proper marina and is a super place to spend some time afloat. You can also be lifted there, of course, but at greater expense than in Cleopatra.

You can read all about our continuing cruise through the Med on our website - link below.

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mikewilkes
01-09-04, 07:10
One of the biggest problems seems to be actually finding a berth. As Colin says its not so bad for big boats like what he has but for us peasents with wee boats it is becoming more difficult in various parts of the Med.
Especially if you need regular / scheduled reliable air lines etc.

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boatmike
01-09-04, 07:52
Thanks again Medman.
Your website is an excellent source of information (and inspiration too!)
Do you believe Cleopatra would be able to lift out a 17ft beam catamaran? Do they use a crane, or have they got a travelift? Often travelifts are not wide enough.

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boatmike
01-09-04, 07:57
Belay last question Medman. Have found their website! Thanks anyway
Mike

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Ric
05-09-04, 09:41
I spent six weeks in Ballearics last year and found it very reasonable. The weather there was so stable, and there were so many beautiful and protected calas, that I was never once forced to seek shelter in a marina (though I went into a few just for a change).

On the other hand I have just got back from Corsica and Sardinia, and my marina bill has been more significant because of the lack of protected anchorages and the unpredictable winds.

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AlexHall
19-09-04, 10:33
Hi I just recieved this thought you might be interested. This is in Malta smack near the town but quiet.

Manoel Island Marina Yard Rate Sheet 2004/2005

Boats on the Hard





Description Price per unit in Malta Liri





Lifting and Lowering



Lifting and Lowering including mandatory high pressure wash Lm13.60 per meter length



To be lifted on slings for survey/inspection purposes

maximum of 2 hrs, or on/off from trailer. Lm6.50 per meter length




Catamarans or multihulls 50% extra



Ground Rent: a) Hard Standing per week Lm1.70 per meter length

b) Minimum charge for hard standing Lm50

c) Catamarans 50% extra



Shore Services:



One time connection charge for shore power and fresh water services. Lm10

Electricity and Fresh Water Lm3 per week or part thereof



Labour Rates:

Service Manager Lm 12.00/hr

Basic Trades Men Lm 9.50/hr

General Labour Lm 8.00/hr



Staging platforms etc:

To erect and dismantle for use by the Yard Lm3.60/mtr (based on a 2.5m wide x 2.5mtr high column)

Hiring for use by owner, crew or subcontractors Lm 0.20/mtr/day (based on 2.5m x 2.5m high column)

Hire of staging on wheels up to 2.5m height Daily at Lm5.00



Application of Antifouling


Application only Lm3.75/mtr length per coat

up to 15 m LOA



Notes: Official exchange rate Lm1 = 2.4 Euros


1) Owners are allowed to live on board ONLY for ONE week after lifting and another prior to lowering.

2) A deposit of Lm 100 would be required for confirmation of booking.

3) Authorisation for Subcontractors to work within the yard is subject to Management approval and a mark up of 10 percent on the invoice for the Yard.

4) Cost of lifting and lowering will be recharged to the boat after one continuous year on hard standing subject to confirmation as contact terminate every year

5) Prices can change without prior notice while VAT is not included if applicable.




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Danthegorrila
22-09-04, 22:37
Hi

Just a few thoughts we have travelled from Gib to Greece during this year to date.
We have used some marinas and many days at anchor, we have also found that there have been quite a few free harbour walls especially in Italy.

As everyone has said the time of year makes a huge difference for our 12m boat we have paid from 6e in marinas in winter to the most being 30e in August, although we also paid 30e in March. One marina quoted us 125e per night plus power and water in peak season!!!!

During June, July and August we have only paid for 3 Marina nights.

So its all about choosing the places and times to anchor and where you want to be. Good value are the pilots Ok its 30 but if you can find some good anchorages you can easily save this.

Talking to other live aboards soon sends the word of good place around the grapevine.

Hope it helps

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Paw Paw
28-09-04, 09:22
The Pilot books are absolutly worth the dosh - I came across the med from Suez to Gib last year and really only used marinas when I wanted - for a change - If you look you can nearly always find an anchorage frequently just inside some port or other - Marina charges vary enourmously depending on the season and yes are horrific at school holiday times.
Never a problem to leave a boat somewhere for a winter at really low prices. I have wintered the boat in Turkey, Greece, Malta, Balearics (the manuel ship yard you mentioned) Tunisia and of course Spain and Gibraltar. sometimes have to do some reasearch but in winter prices come tumbling down..

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