grafozz
regular
Reged: 11/01/2004
Posts: 128
Loc: kefalonia ,greece
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i am looking into taking guests out on day sails in greece ,what are the rules for a british flagged yacht ?
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Eeyore
regular
Reged: 05/10/2007
Posts: 279
Loc: Marmaris, Turkey
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'Guests'....or 'paying customers?'
I think that up until 2003, if your yacht was chartered in Greek waters, then it had to be registered in Greece. After that, the laws changed and Greece fell into line with other EU countries.....which theoretically means that a British flagged yacht can charter in Greece as long as it complies with Greek safety regulations.
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Free gangway is now open.
www.yachtrhumbdo.co.uk
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1466
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That is the theory, but as I understand it you may have difficulty getting a Greek commercial licence unless it is Greek flagged.
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jimbaerselman
regular
Reged: 18/04/2006
Posts: 1755
Loc: Greece in Summer, Southampton ...
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It has to meet the Greek charter regualtions (quite demanding) for equipment, and you apply for a licence. Each charter has has compulsory paperwork attached - a charter agreement, crew list etc. Also, the business has to be registered in Greece for tax purposes. Greek boats go through the same rigmarole.
Don't try short cuts. You may find the boat impounded.
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Jim Baerselman
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/ or Google 'jimb sail'
Compares the Cruising areas of Europe
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 861
Loc: East Coast UK
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Jeez. All this legislation is wonderful innit. I can understand that there must be legislation to protect joe public. But surely the very point and spirit of the EU and the IMO is to harmonise regulations between member states, with the tacit acceptance of Licenses, surveys, codings etc being accepted across member borders. We've had to accept the EUs fuel derogation removal, why can they not accept our certification process!!! If a member of one state can move freely across borders for employment, then surely the same should be true for a Charter boat.
What if a Charter vessel is moving from one Country to another picking up charter guests at different ports en-route. Does it need to comply with each of the member states regulations independently and simultaneously?
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jimbaerselman
regular
Reged: 18/04/2006
Posts: 1755
Loc: Greece in Summer, Southampton ...
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Ah. Slightly different rules if you're just changing passengers . . . the rules applying to cruise ships then come into force. Lots of crew lists at every harbour . . .
But you'll note that ferries which operate into Greek ports and pick up passengers are still overwhelmingly Greek flag vessels!
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Jim Baerselman
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/ or Google 'jimb sail'
Compares the Cruising areas of Europe
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 861
Loc: East Coast UK
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Yes Jim. I note that while we comply to the IMO 40:40:20 rule on foriegn flag vessels, we seem to be alone in doing so.
Even the American's Notorious Jones Act (Blatant Protectionism) allows more free trade than some so-called Liberal European countries do.
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alant
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 1966
Loc: UK - Solent region
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which theoretically means that a British flagged yacht can charter in Greece as long as it complies with Greek safety regulations.
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If its a British flagged vessel, it MUST comply to MCA Coding Regs. As does the skipper/crew under manning regs. It is still registered as a Merchant Navy vessel.
What other regs are applied locally, is a separate matter.
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 861
Loc: East Coast UK
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One of the biggest problems, is that "The Law" be it National or International Law, is subject to "interpretation" first by the National Government enforcement agencies, and then by local regulatory officers. Then, you also have the equivelent of Bye-Laws which can be different for every port visited. We have some anomolies here in the UK in just the same manner.
Just one example: Who is the law enforcement agency for UK waters, such as a River Estauary?
1. The Police
2. The River Bailiff
3. The Coastguard
4. The Harbour Commissioner
5. The Environment Agency
6. The Local Council
7. The County Council... etc.
It can get complicated, as differing bodies have differing responsibilities. Now multiply that by the number of Countries you want to visit in a cruise, and Customs, Immigration, Heritage Depts ( if you want to dive and the like).
One of the points/raison d'etre for the EU was to harmonise all this legislation into manageable proportions. EG. Boat must be certified to regulations pertinent to Country of Origin, in UK that being MCA Rules (which would probably need to be Code 0 for Greece, even if sailing in local waters), and that would be recognised by Greek authorities. But... it doesn't seem to work like that. Safest, is to be Greek or have a Greek partner that knows the wrinkles.
Sorry, semi-rant and wandering a bit off topic.
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alant
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 1966
Loc: UK - Solent region
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Just one example: Who is the law enforcement agency for UK waters, such as a River Estauary?
1. The Police
2. The River Bailiff
3. The Coastguard
4. The Harbour Commissioner
5. The Environment Agency
6. The Local Council
7. The County Council... etc.
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As far as 'commercial' vessels are concerned, these will include Commercially endorsed RYA tickets (RYA for MCA) - 12 passengers max, Boatmaster Licencing (MCA) - up to 250 passengers, Boatmans Licencing (Public Health Act - so local authority Public Health officer) - 12 passengers max. In addition, these will also Code a vessel for operation in these specific waters.
However, the MCA still maintain authority over British flagged vessels wherever they operate. Harmonisation, has yet to be agreed, an example being the recent Boatmaster Tier 1 ( allowing operation within other EU countries), so there remains a multi-layered fog.
Additionally, foreign countries, including the EU, can require STCW 95 compliance for all crew & Master 200+ for skippers.
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