giraffehappy
regular
Reged: 29/07/2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Bristol UK
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please advise: are twin headsails necessary for circumnavigation? or desirable enough to invest four thousand quid...Present sail set up for Warrior 40 is yankee plus main with small staysail. To change to twin headsails will need new self furler with twin foils(2.2k) and new extra jib sail plus twin poles etc.
Some say twin headsails reduce rolling, some say it increases it.. Have even been told that poled out yankee and main with preventer is better, more stable, and faster rig than twin headsails, as more sail is up.
What is best for crew of 2??
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12506
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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The advantage of twin headsails when downwind is that :
You dont have the sail chafe
If wind gets up, it is very easy to reduce the twins (even taking one,and then rolling both together is possible)
On a half boat, downwind you suffer from pendulum effect, it can get so bad that the boom ends up in the water. The foresails are normally shapped so that this is not a problem.
The twin sails are a much better balance, and more forgiving of apparent wind changes. In some boats, you can achieve a balance with them that assists the windvane in keeping course.
Can you not get a new foil for your existing system rather than pay out that much?
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fatipa
regular
Reged: 11/11/2001
Posts: 2549
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You can use an old surplus or secondhand sail of similiar dimensions to the the foreail and fly it free provided it's got a wire luff. There's no need to spend £4k. Take the sheet to a block attached to the end of the swung out main boom (with mainsail furled and boom preventers bracing the main boom away from the stays to prevent chafe on the boom/mainsail) and Bob's your uncle. Total cost a couple of hundred quid if you do your shopping at the boatjumbles. No ones going to notice the stains or patches once you're a couple of miles offshore!!
Cheers, Brian.
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Chris_E
regular
Reged: 13/11/2003
Posts: 4702
Loc: Lymington
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I'd say not necessary.
A boomed out headsail and main worked fine for us in 12000 miles about half of which were downwind. With roller furling headsail you have easy control as the wind pipes up and down. We found that this powered our boat at a reasonable speed, certainly NOT hull speed. We found that hull speed was not comfortable for long passages and slowed the boat to a knot of so less. Others we talked to did the same but others preferred to go fast at the expense of comfort and I'm sure that it depends alot upon your hull form as to what speed you find comfortable.
We did consider a double, we have a twin luff groove on the forestay but ruled it out because as a two handed crew we reckoned the faffing about with two poles and double sails on the furler outweighed any potential benefits.
As Talbot says the cut of the sail is crucial, you may have read that the Hiscocks used twin headsails which were high cut. Their boat managed a snappy 40 port to 40 starboard roll in two seconds.
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AndrewB
regular
Reged: 07/06/2001
Posts: 3482
Loc: Cruising California
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Not essential now, though it may have been in the days before efficient vane steering systems, able to hold a downwind course. My experience is the rolling is not noticeably less with twin headsails than a goose-winged genoa and mainsail on a preventer. However, beware the latter set-up in stronger winds (F6) as a breaking wave can precipitate a destructive broach that the vane can't correct.
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Chris_E
regular
Reged: 13/11/2003
Posts: 4702
Loc: Lymington
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I'd agree with Andrew's comments regarding higher winds and add that you can help the windvane out by towing something. We towed a turbine for electricy generation and this held the stern steady in bigger seas. Others recommend towing fenders or a small drogue.
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snowleopard
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 10996
Loc: Cornwall
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no clue from your profile where you are but if you are around s. england, pay a visit to seateach in emsworth who have a big stock of used sails and will let you try one if you're not sure about it. it's worth experimenting with a 2nd headsail set flying, ideally with a furler but not too difficult to handle without. perhaps a smaller one than your yankee so you can leave it up and furl the yankee when it blows.
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jerryat
regular
Reged: 20/03/2004
Posts: 3260
Loc: Nr Plymouth
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Hi Fatipa!
Exactly! On our pond circuits we used precisely this set-up, though using our roller genny sheeted to the boom end one side, and the original (hanked) No2 jib set on a removable inner forestay rigged about 450mm aft of the roller and sheeted via the spi pole, on the other.
Reefing was simplicity itself, as we rigged a downhaul for the jib to avoid having to go forward, and rolled the genny as necessary.
The whole was chafe free, beautifully balanced, and reduced rolling to an absolute minimum. We had thought the difference in sail areas would create an imbalance, but (for some reason!) this didn't occur.
On a few occasions when the trades went very light, we used the spinnaker, although this did tend to increase the rolling despite using blocks well forward to minimise the swaying of the kite. I might have been the the slower boat speed allowed rolling to happen more easily though.
Finally, we were pleasantly surprised at the angles we could trim to without changing course, as the wind backed or veered.
Cheers
Jerry
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giraffehappy
regular
Reged: 29/07/2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Bristol UK
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Hi snowleopard,
yacht based in Plymouth. Re-rigging due to start mid-October, with mast coming off, so any extra halyards etc. could be rigged then. Thank you very much for the offer of trying out sails etc. Where is Emsworth?
Cheers Sophy
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giraffehappy
regular
Reged: 29/07/2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Bristol UK
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Thanx for all these really helpful ideas, it is a really important input into our ongoing decision making process. We are ramping up really quickly having only bought the boat in June, and wanting to cast off next spring, and being novice yacht owners,(last boat was a Wayfarer...) we are frequently perplexed. At blue water cruising rally in Southampton on Saturday it seemed like twin headsails was the only way to go, but I now think that we will try to cross the Atlantic without them.
Cheers Guys!
Sophy
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