FinesseChris
regular
Reged: 03/09/2001
Posts: 152
Loc: SW London, boat Dolphin Quay, ...
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My daughter has only been seasick once in four seasons sailing in my little wooden boat.
The cause was some clown in a Princeseeker or Sunsess or something big, white and three-storeyed. He opened the throttles as he exited Chichester on a Sunday afternoon. The resulting wash caused us to drop about eight feet into a hole and then corkscrew wildly. There was I, wrestling with the tiller and missing other yachts by too close a margin, there was my wife mopping up the cockpit, there was the 12-year-old, grey-green and miserable.
It was only when this Red Diesel compaign started that I put 2 and 2 together and realised that my passing clown had been burning untaxed fuel. We don't moor in a marina, and so we take our diesel on board in cans filled at the garage. So the price difference had never really struck me.
So as an RYA member I am expected to join in a campaign to subsidise the show-off we see every weekend.
I don't quite see the logic, or justice. And speaking for myself (and my family) if a cost increase causes a few people to think twice before opening the throttles, I would be quite content.
Sorry to go against the grain, and I don't think I have ever spoken out FOR a tax before, but once again where's the logic?
Best wishes
Chris
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Bergman
regular
Reged: 27/11/2002
Posts: 3790
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As a raggie myself I have much sympathy with your views on the p*****k in the powerboat.
But taxing diesel is not the answer. The fact is if he can afford to burn that much red diesel he can afford the tax.
And he will still be a P*****k.
Don't know how you stop people behaving like this, short of physical violence (an appealing prospect) but tax is not the answer.
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kds
regular
Reged: 21/11/2002
Posts: 1517
Loc: Somerset
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Perhaps tax is not the answer - but why should my taxes on other things subsidise his behaviour.
I still think there is on moral argument in favour of cheaper fuel in motor boats than in cars or petrol engined boats.
AND - anything which makes people think twice about wasting fuel by burning it up unnecessarily and adding to pollution can't be bad.
Ken
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longjohnsilver
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 7350
Loc: Devon
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Seems to me your logic is a bit flawed. Totally agree that whoever caused you the problem with wash was idiotic probably verging on being dangerous. But why should his stupidity result in me paying higher costs for my fuel? You should have reported him to the harbour master.
It's a bit like me saying ban all yachts from a certain place cos someone in a small dinghy has tacked straight across my bows in an area of resticted manouverability or yet another dinghy has scraped down the side of my boat on my mooring. Oh yes, some of us do reside outside marinas!
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Bergman
regular
Reged: 27/11/2002
Posts: 3790
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His fuel is not subsidised, it is simply taxed at a lower rate.
Thats a very different thing.
I don't think there needs to be an argument, moral or otherwise, in favour of cheap diesel for non road-going vehicles (it isn't just power boats).
The argument that should be made, and to my mind has not been made, is why road fuel needs to be taxed so heavily. So long as we take the view that not being taxed "until the pips squeal" is a subsidy, then being so taxed will be the norm. Plus of course it won't just be red diesel, but anthing and everything else.
As for pollution I would be more convinced that the government were serious about this if they taxed aviation fuel more heavily.
That stuff is burned by the ton, at high altitude where it does the most damage. So if you want to address global warming etc. then thats the place to start.
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Trevor_swfyc
regular
Reged: 19/01/2002
Posts: 706
Loc: Crouch
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Sorry cannot see how your taxes subsidize his behaviour, lets not kid ourselves red diesel is not tax free. The oil companies pay large sums in North sea tax and we pay VAT. We are an oil rich country and it produces an enormous amount of revenue such that our use for leisure boating is but a drop in the ocean so to speak. Tax on fuel for leisure boating will not effect the guy in the gin palace it will hit the retired, boating on a shoe string guy who gets pleasure out of messing about in boats. Some have already been priced off the roads you are just voting these guys off the river, which would in my book be rough justice.
Do you like many others enjoy holidays abroad how many miles to the gallon of jetA1 do you think you are consuming at a lot less than £3 a gallon. Maybe somebody has the figures but I would say the polution from aircraft exceeds that from all the cars. So no I am not going to think twice about the very small amount of diesel I use in pursuit of my bit of pleasure.
Happy days!
Trevor
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Mrtallsheep
regular
Reged: 13/08/2003
Posts: 18
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Sounds like a green eyed raggie to me! Taxing people will not improve their boating skill and indeed poor manners!
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scarlett
regular
Reged: 21/12/2002
Posts: 1099
Loc: French Canals 2007 on, Hull mo...
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To save me going through all the posts, please point me at someone who has made a reasoned case for retaing tax free diesel.
I admit I use the tax free in my boat when in the UK. But those visiting the continent have to fill up with tax paid. What are their feelings about this?
I would suggest that logically pleasure boat fuel should be tax paid. We accept the tax on our boat, booze, petrol and other pleasures, so why not the diesel. The up side is that we should seek to reduce our consumption and do a little for the planet.
Please reply. I have an open mind.
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longjohnsilver
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 7350
Loc: Devon
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You're on a sailing boat in Greece??!!??!!
Hope it rains all summer ;-))
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steverow
regular
Reged: 13/12/2002
Posts: 1273
Loc: Midlands UK. Boat South Wales
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Yes but the taxes here in the UK are so high that they are way out of proportion to the cost of fuel. You are talking about a four fold increase in fuel prices if it went up to the same tax level as road fuel here. That would price many motorboats totally out of the hobby, as well as wiping thousands off the value of their boats.
I expect most users would not mind a sensible mild increase in duty, but you must remember that we have the most expensive road fuel in Europe by some margin.
Steve.
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