zeros
regular
Reged: 23/12/2004
Posts: 131
Loc: chichester
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With the likes of David Attenboroughs program on climate change and the ever increasing public awareness of this issue do you think that in a few years time there is going to be a big backlash into the use of big (and small) mobos for pleasure use?
Is red diesel etc the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended)?
Will we be banished?
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Sam101
regular
Reged: 30/12/2004
Posts: 78
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This may well happen but only if the likes of the Sun get their hands on the story....So watch out all you owners of big engines.....at best you will have a tax put on horsepower.
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gjeffery
regular
Reged: 14/11/2002
Posts: 400
Loc: UK Emsworth
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Interesting improvements are being made in the fuel and environmental efficiency of diesel engined road vehicles. Such improvements have largely been driven by the pressure of increasing fuel prices.
An unfortunate effect of the availability of Red Diesel is that boat manufacturers are able to continue to market boats on the basis of speed, not energy efficiency and optimization of the engine/hull/duty match. This seems out of step with current good practice in engineering.
Manufacturers who advertise their boats as "a steel fist in a velvet glove" positively invite critical attention.
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rickp
regular
Reged: 10/11/2002
Posts: 5449
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Quote:
An unfortunate effect of the availability of Red Diesel is that boat manufacturers are able to continue to market boats on the basis of speed, not energy efficiency and optimization of the engine/hull/duty match. This seems out of step with current good practice in engineering.
Yes, because the lack of red-diesel in France, Spain etc has really affected the market there and they all use radically more efficient motorboats then in the UK. Or were you just trolling? You don't work for ecocats do you?
Rick
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zeros
regular
Reged: 23/12/2004
Posts: 131
Loc: chichester
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so what happens to the marinas full of current boats?
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gjeffery
regular
Reged: 14/11/2002
Posts: 400
Loc: UK Emsworth
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I have a background in engineering design. Environmental considerations are mandated aspects of engineering curricula and for years students at the level of final professional registration (ie MEng CEng) have had to demonstrate good practice by defending their designs in the context of sustainability and environmental impact.
The management of EC projects has done nothing to lessen my cynicism concerning European regulation, however European Directives are real constraints.
Hence, my suggestion that as well as being good practice, it would be commercially prudent for new boat designs (like new building and vehicle designs) to reflect the inevitability of increasing fuel costs, and not to rely on any respite from the continuation of red diesel.
Existing boats, like existing Landrovers, will continue to become more expensive to operate. Motor manufacturers have reacted and over the past nine years have increased fuel efficiency by around 10 to 14 per cent. Landrover are committed to improving the fuel consumption of the Freelander by about 30% to yield 50 mpg and 150g/km CO2.
The challenge should be to increase the energy efficiency of boat systems and to market boats on the basis that this is an asset.
Hardly a troll.
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Andrew_Fanner
regular
Reged: 13/03/2002
Posts: 5600
Loc: ked into poverty by children
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Aircraft, aircraft aircraft. Baby blue sky above Penton Hook at 10 am this morning, black streak through it from an aeroplane. Boat pollution is, by comparison, irrelevant. Boaters are institutionally rich and thus an easy target.
--------------------
Two beers please, my friend is paying.
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Sam101
regular
Reged: 30/12/2004
Posts: 78
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I agree.
but you can hit boats owners for tax without much affect to to Mr browns pockets. But hit airlines and all hell will break loose...or so Labour will tell us.
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bizo
regular
Reged: 28/01/2006
Posts: 30
Loc: Torquay
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There's no denying that firing up twin 1000 hp engines and going off on a jolly results in a disproportionatly large amount of hydro carbons being burnt per head of the population having a good time. Take a the passengers off a 747 flying to the Med for their summers holiday and put them all in large mobo's and you've got a lot more Co2 in the atmosphere. You could of course fill your boat with carbon neutral bio-diesel and laugh in Green Peace's face, but they'd be quick to ask why the limited supply of bio-diesel is going in boats and not towards more essential transportation requirements.
In a world of limited resources trying to push what amounts to a luxury home (complete with kitchen sink) through the water at a great rate of knots is always going to be hard to defend.
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gjeffery
regular
Reged: 14/11/2002
Posts: 400
Loc: UK Emsworth
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The comparison with air travel is interesting. Current quoted fuel efficiencies for long distance air travel, assuming full aircraft, are 1 gallon per 100 passenger miles (RR Trent).
The pollution problem is not so much due to design but to the size of the air transport industry and the lack of fiscal control, mainly as a consequence of international (ie USA dominated) treaties. The aero engineering industry is not shy about its progress in mitigating the production of pollutants, ie NOx and CO2.
European targets for air travel set in 2002, required reductions of 50% CO2 and 80% NOx to be achieved by 2020. Obviously, CO2 production is directly proportional to fuel burn. Of these targets, 15% would be met from engine efficiency and 35% by air frame and operational efficiencies. Current improvement in engine efficiency, since 2002, is quoted as 7 to 10%.
Seeking fuel efficiency is very much the "spirit of the age", yet manufacturers of high performance power boats have been far less open in discussing fuel efficiencies. I haven't done the calc, but I believe that each kg diesel fuel burned results in the emission of 2.7 kg CO2. I would be very interested to know what the Design Brief is for modern power boats, and what part energy efficiency plays in it. My guess is that future proof designs will be those optimized to achieve fuel efficiency.
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