SimonC
MBM editor
Reged: 22/07/2005
Posts: 155
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MBM has written to every UK MEP to get their position on the red diesel derogation, and to ascertain what each of them has actually done to support the campaign.
You see our letter, and the MEP's responses on the MBM red diesel blog
We're also including each MEP's email address, so if you'd like to take up any of the issues raised with your representative, this is your chance.
A decision on red diesel is likely to be made at the end of the year, so this could be your final chance to make your voice heard.
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Editor
Motor Boats Monthly
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Fireball
regular
Reged: 15/11/2004
Posts: 7927
Loc: Chichester
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Quote:
Thomas Wise, UKIP MEP for the East, told MBM:
"As you say, the UK Government submitted a formal application for the derogation. I am simply not aware of any process or contact I could have that would affect this over here in Brussels. It remains in the gift of the UK government. Why they should have to go cap in hand to get it, baffles me, but then that is what you get by being in the EU, control of your life by folk you do not elect and cannot get rid of!
Flammin h*ll ... it baffles HIM!!
Quote:
"If you know of flesh I can press, please let me know."
Nice to know our MEPs are on the ball ... please don't tell me this is going to be a typical response ... oh hang on, it probably is ... they are concentrating on the much more pressing issues of making sure our Apples conform to the euro standard - perfectly round and no more than 6cm diameter with a stalk 4cm long - have they decided the pantone colour it has to be yet?
What a complete and utter waste of time europe is ... we have such a weak government (all of them!) that we just bow to whatever "europe" decides ... it really is about time we - as a MAJOR contributor (I believe a net contributor too?!) to the Euro fund stood up and shouted BOLLOX to you lot ...
The idea that taxing fuel will reduce usage is total cr4p ... it can be demonstrated by the sheer volume of cars now on our roads - desipite the massive hike in road fuel prices - so why do they think that boat fuel will be any different?
So - if the tax hike will not reduce usage - what is it actually going to achieve?! Well - it'll remove a number of borderline boaters from the water - those who don't actually use a significant (in the big picture - its significant to them) amount of fuel anyway...
So - other than ruining boating for a small number of folk - it'll achieve nothing except a bit more work for civil servants (that'll need a big pay rise and a few more positions with final pay salaries then) .. great!
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SimonC
MBM editor
Reged: 22/07/2005
Posts: 155
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Well, in fairness, he is from UKIP - and they do tend to make a big play about how they don't understand Europe and are powerless to do anything in it. But, whether you like them or not, they are certainly not responsible for straight bananas / round apples / Human Rights Act or anything else coming out of Brussels.
They're very supportive of our campaign but, unfortunately, they don't agree in participating in the European process, so they're not exactly the most useful allies you can get.
Or maybe they'll prove me wrong... 
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Editor
Motor Boats Monthly
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gjgm
regular
Reged: 14/03/2002
Posts: 3032
Loc: hythe marina
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"So - if the tax hike will not reduce usage - what is it actually going to achieve?! Well - it'll remove a number of borderline boaters from the water - those who don't actually use a significant (in the big picture - its significant to them) amount of fuel anyway..."
well, what people say they will do, and what they do isnt always the same.I m sure people move into and out of boating for lots of reasons. Given the overall costs of owning any boat at all, I m not at all convinced that an increase in fuel price will really change the number of boaters. Some might step out, some will step in. Or take up sail... or use the boat differently.Lots of big cars still sold these days, despite an enormous rise in fuel prices-its not as though everyone is buying 1000cc engines bcz of the cost of fuel. I m curious of the sort of fuel bills people have now in relation to the value of the boat and the cost of running it, that suggests they ll have to give up boating in droves. if you have £10k boat, I doubt you use much fuel(well, not diesel!). If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you. If you have £100k+ boat-, well its probably already costing £10k a year at least anyway...
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Andrew_Fanner
regular
Reged: 13/03/2002
Posts: 5600
Loc: ked into poverty by children
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>>>
if you have £10k boat, I doubt you use much fuel(well, not diesel!). If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you. If you have £100k+ boat-, well its probably already costing £10k a year at least anyway...
>>>
Tosh, almost NuLabour indpendant report level tosh in fact.
£10K boat and an extra £500 on fuel doubles my bills. Those bills are kept down by not going tidal as often as I would like to. "As often as I would like to" may become "at all". I can go to Rochetsre and back on £50 of fule, but not in a weekend and its a long way at 6 knots. There is too little understanding of just how marginal some folk's boating really is, and just how many of there there are.
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Two beers please, my friend is paying.
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Nickcf
regular
Reged: 13/04/2004
Posts: 448
Loc: Kent
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[If you have £50k boat.. £500 more on fuel isnt going to kill you.
Why do you think it will only be £500....
If you do an average now of 70 hours/year the fuel bill is already likely to be well in excess of £2000. The price if we lose red diesel will go up by at least 100% so the increase will be over £2000 per year not £500.....!!! This will put many people off the sport completely as it is a cost too much. This will affect second hand boat prices and consequently damage the new market as well.
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Sgeir
regular
Reged: 22/11/2004
Posts: 5589
Loc: h Linnhe in the summer - Dalle...
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Quote:
[If you do an average now of 70 hours/year the fuel bill is already likely to be well in excess of £2000.
As much as that? Surely not?
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Ω
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Fireball
regular
Reged: 15/11/2004
Posts: 7927
Loc: Chichester
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If you use ~ 57L per hour .... that's some engine!!
70hours a year - at 5L per hour (how much do mobos consume?) is only ~£175
So double to 10L/hour (around 2 gallons? no point in accuracy - cos who does exactly 70 hours?!) - and you're still less than £500 ...
I'm certain that even 100% increase in price will not effect our use - it is less than £100/pa (got sails see!) ....
Our highest cost is winter storage/lift .... and that is where we try and save money...
The sort of ppl it will affect are like Andrew_Fanner who are already boating on a tight budget and will result in them using the boat less or even selling on as it isn't seen to be a financially viable hobby - then what to they do? Get on a plane to CostaDelSunburn as the flight and hotel is cheaper than a tank of fuel.... carbon footprint.... probably about the same.
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Nickcf
regular
Reged: 13/04/2004
Posts: 448
Loc: Kent
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Quote:
If you use ~ 57L per hour .... that's some engine!!
70hours a year - at 5L per hour (how much do mobos consume?) is only ~£175
So double to 10L/hour (around 2 gallons? no point in accuracy - cos who does exactly 70 hours?!) - and you're still less than £500 ...
Well obviously all depends on the boat and the engines but a typical 40ft boat with twin 350hp diesels can consume 60ltrs an hour. 60*70*£.50= £2100 per annum. The benefit of a mobo is at least you have actually got somewhere in your 70 hours of cruising....
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gjgm
regular
Reged: 14/03/2002
Posts: 3032
Loc: hythe marina
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I m not saying my suggested numbers were representative, i was just trying to get some benchmarks. If you take a large twin engined boat.. i dont know what does a second hand one cost? At least £100K? Well, lets agree at some stage an owners wealth might mean he isnt going to abandon his boat bcz of a possible fuel price hike. I sympathise with any specific individual who may, personally, have to give up boating. I m only suggesting that boat ownership is always changing. People marry, have kids, divorce, win the lottery inherit..god knows what . There will always be people leaving and joining the hobby. If people leave, maybe boat prices fall, and then that attracts others in. I m just doubtful we will see a big change in boating if red diesel goes up.
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