Robih
regular
Reged: 29/11/2002
Posts: 1258
Loc: Hampshire
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All this talk of “ending the concession” is a bit odd to me, because I understood that whether red or white diesel was used for vehicles depended on whether it was being used as “road fuel” or not. Thus, Farmers, who put red diesel in their tractors, are entitled to do so because a tractor is not primarily a road vehicle. Likewise forklift trucks in yard premises where not taken on the road, and finally boats because they are clearly not using red diesel as road fuel.
I remember this because there was an issue a few years ago where farmers were hauling sugar beet to the factory with the new generation of “fast” tractors (these tractors do 40mph) and Customs were questioning their right to use red diesel because the vehicles were primarily being used as road vehicles. The final argument came down (I think) to whether these tractors had standard field tyres or whether they had fitted “road tyres”.
So, to remove the so called “concession for boats” as far as I can see the government have to change the law such that it is not determined by vehicle use but by some other method. If they don’t then surely farmers (and fork lift trucks and trawlers and council grass cutting machinery and lorries on container ports etc………………) will also all have to use white diesel instead of red.
If the government say well “leisure boats are to use white diesel” then I can see my boat having a LAN fitted on it pretty sharpish with a special lazerette for the server and fax! “No Sir, not a leisure boat but a floating office”
As for VAT, well the rule for boat diesel is nonsense. Because of something strange in the VAT Act we only pay 5% (on small quantities) of red diesel whereas we should pay the full 17.5% rate (farmers do!). So Gordon could go for that and I wouldn’t have such an objection. (The effect would be an increase from 35ppl to 39ppl which is 11%, fair do’s).
So, my message for Gordon is:
1) Leave red diesel law as it is (unless you are also taking on everybody else as well, don’t just stick the knife in to boaters)
2) You can have 17.5% VAT on boat diesel, that gives you some cash and it’s fair enough
Someone from the RYA must read this website I presume?......................
rob
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itsonlymoney
regular
Reged: 21/06/2003
Posts: 4381
Loc: UK
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Rob
I have a petrol engine cos I dont do that many engine hours (Windermere) so economy no great issue. But I sympathise with the plight of deisel boaters who do a lot of engine hours and therefore rely heavily on low cost deisel.
Just wanted to say I agree with all of your comments.
Ian
Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !
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Tommyrot
regular
Reged: 17/01/2004
Posts: 1198
Loc: On a sandbank......
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Correct.
DERV = Diesel Engined Road Vehicles.
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sonarbell
regular
Reged: 11/06/2001
Posts: 97
Loc: Midlands
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So why cant us petrol heads have concessions too???. Why should the Oil burners be classed as special cases and exempt from paying tax at the going rate. ??
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Talon2
regular
Reged: 24/12/2003
Posts: 44
Loc: Ocean Village
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Agree with all you say. I wonder how many MP's are aware of these facts. If not then should'nt we be making sure they do.
Keith
http://www.mobiledit.co.uk
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Andrew_Fanner
regular
Reged: 13/03/2002
Posts: 5496
Loc: ked into poverty by children
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See earlier threads and www.faxyourmp.com
Two beers please, my friend is paying.
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Robih
regular
Reged: 29/11/2002
Posts: 1258
Loc: Hampshire
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Forgive me, I fear that I have not explained myself well enough in my note as you seemed to have missed the point. (And apologies for the poor formatting of my note, I typed it in Word and then pasted it and the format has gone screwy and ommitted some of the words).
To reiterate, the point is that diesel boat owners are NOT getting a "concession" but are merely consuming fuel in accordance with the current UK law which is that red diesel (lower rate duty diesel) is available for "non road" use. Boats are "non road" and therefore benefit from the law. Ditto farmers, fork lift's, etc as per my earlier note.
I regret that I have no answer for your challenge as to why petrol boat owners cannot benefit from a similar arrangement - an answer would require a study of the law as to why "non road fuel" was classified as such and limited to diesel fuel only. I expect that the origin of this lies in the fact that non road fuel has typically been diesel and not petrol (there are no petrol tractors or fork lifts around!)
rob
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Doffy
regular
Reged: 09/04/2002
Posts: 319
Loc: Suffolk
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www.faxyourmp.com
It works I got a reply. everybody should have there say.
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robind
regular
Reged: 23/07/2003
Posts: 1438
Loc: sussex
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Well done Rob! I agree totally and couldnt have put it better.
regards
Robd
RejuVanu
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junksailor
regular
Reged: 22/02/2004
Posts: 36
Loc: West Yorks
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I think the term Gordon Brown uses is "Rebated fuel oil" One of the main problems has been use by road hauliers and Taxis of the red diesel and organised crime washing the dye out of red diesel by using acids.
The washed stuff rots any alloy parts in the fuel system, but all machinery runs better on the red than it does on the taxed white due to all the cleaner aditives in the latter.
There are lots of random checks on road users here in North Yorkshire, but I have read about fishing boats having their fuel checked at Stornoway in a customs swoop, and I can't understand why? Is it because cheaper fuel still is available from abroad? Is this the yellow diesel?
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