Koolie
regular
Reged: 21/06/2006
Posts: 142
Loc: East Coast, Boat in Brightling...
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Hello to everyone on here!
I went out with a Training School that I did all my RYA sailing courses with this weekend. I was been taken by an RYA Trainer that I have used many times with this company as a refresher weekend. On this weekend there were four other 'students' that have all their Day Skipper pass papers, they achieved their papers at two other schools. Now my skipperr trainer took us all to one side and explained that each of us were to do a skippered passage in the Solent.
My point is being this, The others have their RYA Day Skipper Papers, but none of them have did their theory courses. They could not find information in Almanac, or do a course to steer???????? They had no idea about how to keep our vessel in a safe passage. One even started to go through a race fleet on a port tack, because it was the shortest route!!!!
How can I have been taught so much more by the company I went with, and these others be taught such a low standard????
I will not mention the bad quality schools but I will mention the school which took me from novice to coastal skipper, over two years!!! They were At Sailing Limited, my Teacher was Al Turner, I learnt loads from these,
It just made me not understand how there can be such big seperation between RYA Schools?????????????
DO some schools just put bums on seats and then give out papers?????
I was very lucky to haave choosed such a high standard school, thank goodness it was not one of the two I have been found today???
A question that was asked today as we were finished was, 'would we be happy to take out our familys?' We all said yes! I would want to know when they are out on the water, because I will be at my home!
Thanks Al Turner and At Sailing for another great weekend, I learnt more again this time.
Isaac.
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Al_Jones
regular
Reged: 21/06/2006
Posts: 2248
Loc: king out today then Sir?
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Wow! Koolie thanks for the endorsement!
I am gonna stick up for the RYA.
Now, All RYA schools are scrutinised rigorously to maintain a high standard of instruction and level of competence.
I receive a report every time Kindred Spirit goes out, whether it be for a RYA course or as this weekend was, a 'refresher weekend'. Al is one of our main instructors and he has a passion which is shared by many of his colleagues the industry, sadly not by all though.
I heard all about the standard of the other 'Daized Kippers' and was appalled!!
There are many other schools out there whom have the same high standards as A.T. And you will not be surprised to hear that we all probably know the schools which provide a lesser standard. Same as a Mechanic knowing where bad practises are going on in his industry.
We had our Annual inspection, not three weeks ago, and Tina and I were over the moon with the comments that we received from our inspector.
Anyway, thanks again for your compliments, I will make sure Tina passes on your comments to Al Turner.
Happy to have you aboard, happy to have you aboard again.
Regards
Al Jones,
Principal.
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www.atsailing.com RYA Training school Sail and Power
www.sailroom.co.uk
Your online chandlery
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SteveB_Sigma33
regular
Reged: 25/11/2003
Posts: 285
Loc: Port Solent, UK
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It does seem standards are not standard!
Mate of mine was telling me about his yacht master and what a farce that was. People not knowing about transits, hitting pontoons and heading into foul tides etc, strangely enough all of the candidates passed when some of them had committed some right howlers.
However, that said I do the courses for my education and the satisfaction that I do know how to do things. That said as a yacht master I would not necessarily trust another yacht master until I had sailed with them for a while and felt comfortable that they knew what they were about.
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Palodillo
regular
Reged: 07/06/2001
Posts: 2227
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Al, I have been at it for about 45 years, do I realy need a bit of paper with a stamp on it? or should I just give up something I realy enjoy doing 
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Al_Jones
regular
Reged: 21/06/2006
Posts: 2248
Loc: king out today then Sir?
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No you don't.
A cert is not a requirement for all,..............yet.
You, as I, have many more miles and years of experience that no cert can give us. However, I was asked by several here at Heybridge Basin what quals I had, and I felt that I would like to have some form of cert to assist me in my chosen profession and for the 1,000's of miles, the five Atlantic crossings, the trips around the Horn, the trips to the ice I have achieved.
I, as a fellow sea farer, understand that there are many sailors that have eons of experience and no quals, and as we know, you can have the quals and no experience, I know who I would be happier to go to sea with.
I am happy with what I have achieved on the high seas, and most of those were prior to passing my RYA courses, now I have the RYA certs also, it aint a bad thing to have,...........................is it?
I like the earlier comment made by our learnerd friend that there are some real howlers out there. I agree, experience counts, and prove to me you know what you say you can do attitude can be a life saving attitude!!
Fair winds, and happy sea miles Rich,
Al.
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www.atsailing.com RYA Training school Sail and Power
www.sailroom.co.uk
Your online chandlery
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wotayottie
regular
Reged: 01/07/2007
Posts: 1897
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First thing to be said is that it isnt necessary for Day Skipper practical candidates to have done the theory course. I reckon this is an error on the RYA's part because there is no way on a 5 day practical course that an instructor can cover the practical skills, manage the course / boat and give the same coverage to the theory that you do in 40 hours or more of classroom work plus the usual homework. But thats the RYA policy and it also applies at YM level.
You can argue the toss about the importance of mistakes, but you need to be realistic and allow some. The decider when I did my YM was "would I allow you to take my daughter on a trip across the channel" as explained by the master mariner doing the examining. And I made a mistake - a course to steer out by 180 degrees - quickly corrected and still passed. Clearly there would be a lesser standard for day skipper
Dont worry about approaching a fleet of boats on port tack as long as you are prepared to give way. The fact that they are racing is irrelevant - colregs still apply to them. In any case, you often get that situation within the fleet itself. Add a bit of excitement to your sail!
Well done to Al Turner
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Fireball
regular
Reged: 15/11/2004
Posts: 7941
Loc: Chichester
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Pity not all instructors actually know how to handle their boat!!
An instructor we were berthed next to on Sat night couldn't reverse his boat out of the slot between 2 other moored boats without having to tie on to one - and still managed to collide (in a slightly controlled manner with fenders out) with the other. Granted, his Salder 34 seemed to have plenty of Port propwalk, but had he not worked out how to shoot the stern round using forward gear?
The way he was briefing everyone and getting warps to other boats we assumed that one of the students was going to take it out, but no - he was doing this maneuver himself .... it wasn't just me - the skippers from the charter boats next to us (pro skippers) said they didn't want to watch either!!
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curve
regular
Reged: 09/02/2008
Posts: 1034
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I have sailed with a number of companies in the Solent where people had been completing their various RYA certificates. I have only ever seen one person fail their Day Skipper mostly because they had signed up for the course with no sailing experience at all. All of the other candidates I could judge were more than capable of Day Skipper. Some were a little hesitant at the start of the course but they developed in confidence and ability during the week. Sailors have mishaps all the time and it is important to learn from your mistakes.
I have even been with what some people consider the worst RYA training company and yet I have sailed with the best and most trustworthy skippers with this company and I don't hesitate about sailing with them again.
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flaming
regular
Reged: 24/03/2004
Posts: 1885
Loc: Southampton
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I agree that the theory ought to be compulsory. As others have said it is very hard for an instructor to teach the theory and the practical in just 5 days.
However, I would add this. How long ago did these dodgy day skippers do the course, and have they sailed since?
If it's been a couple of years and they've not sailed since then it's perhaps not too suprising that they have forgotten a few things.
And given that they were on a refresher course, that's perhaps quite likely and indicates that they were sensible and aware of their limitations.
This is why I always used to say "well done, you're now a day skipper - now go sailing!"
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You never know, I might be right!
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Koolie
regular
Reged: 21/06/2006
Posts: 142
Loc: East Coast, Boat in Brightling...
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Hello again,
I have readed that an instructor will be difficult to teach theory and practical in 5 days!!
Well the RYA say you can do a theory and practical combined but that it be 9 day course!!!
These people were absolutly abismal at all aspects of being incharge of a vessel at sea. When Al Turner asked them a questions, their combined answer was, " Oh we wern't teached that". Maybe a get out, but hey, it was a frustrating weekend, we couldn't get everything done that I have wanted.
Thanks AT Sailing for your answer, and for your offer of a reduced rate weekend to make up for it! Again I come back!!!
Isaac.
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