| majdrew |
| (regular) |
| 10/05/2008 22:29 |
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Buying in US to liveaboard..
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Hi Everyone!
I plan to buy a Tayana 37 in the US, to liveboard and cruise, mainly Med/Carib, and sometimes quick visits to the UK, for a guinness, then I'll be off again..
Do I have to pay VAT/import tax, when I reach the EU? Even though I will be visiting temporarily?
And do I have to comply with this CE/RCD thing that I read about?
Would it simplify things if I were to register her outside the EU? Is it even possible?, or do I have to register under the UK flag, as I am a UK citizen. I understand I can register her as foreign company owned, but I don't want the complications involved with this.
Any advice gratefully received!
Regards, Mark.
| majdrew |
| (regular) |
| 10/05/2008 22:42 |
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supplementary query..
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I read that if the boat has been in EU waters before 1998, then the RCD certification is not required..
The boat I am interested in was built in 1985, and possibly/probably has visited the EU before that date.. but how could i find out/prove it??
Regards, Mark.
| Kitten_Felix |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 01:22 |
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Re: Buying in US to liveaboard..
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hi there,
i have been looking into the same thing, i had one return mail from the tax people, it stated that if i live on the boat, outside euro waters for one year. then it could be treated as you PPR personel primary residence. when i asked then how i can prove this one returning to euro waters they wont reply. i have been told, (and i think it is good advice.) check with a tax accountant/lawyer. nobody i seem to ask will give a straight answer. the key thing seems to be stay out of euro waters for a year, or failing that just pay the tax and reg it as a cat D craft. there do seem to be some bloody good prices in the states right now. dealer i have spoken with say the prices are down 20% due to the credit thing. sorry if this dont answer your question, if you get a better result than i have. please put it on here. cheers and happy hunting
| Captainslarty |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 09:53 |
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Re: Buying in US to liveaboard..
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Kitten, a friend of mine bought the same boat as the poster mentioned, tayana 37 in FL.
was out of the country for 18 months. when he brought it back the tax people refused to accept it as Personal import.
they wanted proof of resindential status in the country outside of the eu. Ie, you must be RESIDENT outside the eu.
To the poster, you will be immediately liable for vat if you return to eu waters.. the only grace period of 18 months is offered to NON EU citizens.
It is a minefield.. we looked into it at length 5 years ago and gave it up as it was too much hassel.
| majdrew |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 10:21 |
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Thanks for your replys!
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I have researched this a bit and come to these conclusions..
I will have to pay vat when I reach EU waters, no matter how long I've been away, but can pay the vat in the Azores, where it's less, at 12.5% {I wonder if vat is less in the French Caribbean Islands, and I could pay the vat there...}
RCD..
proof of being in EU waters before 1998, would be for example, marina/boatyard repair receipts. This includes French/Dutch Isles in Carib.
If no proof/not visited EU, then RCD certification required, costs about 2-5K for this size boat. [37']
That would be to do it all by the book... I'm not sure I would bother with the RCD.. it seems unlikely to be caught without a certificate, and not really a problem unless I wanted to sell the boat in the EU, when it would be impossible without. But plenty of other places to sell if I wanted too..
Regards, Mark.
| Captainslarty |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 10:52 |
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Re: Thanks for your replys!
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Hiya Mark
Not that I would suggest this
But, it HAS been known.. that some seriously unscrupulous people..........
errr.. find a marina that has closed in the EU - or changed hands, and, a company of the same ilk in the EU.. photocopy an old bill to prove they were their, and, vat receipt for the sale of the boat in the EU.. or make one up in the name of such a genuine now defunct marina or company... edit with paintshop pro.. then apply a mild cold tea solution to age the paper..
Problem solved.. NOT of course, that I would personally recommend doing it this way so as to be logistically untraceable...
BUT................. hmmm
| majdrew |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 16:21 |
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Re: Thanks for your replys!
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hmmmmm.......
| Wightknight |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 20:30 |
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Re: Buying in US to liveaboard..
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A couple of points that might help
1) If the boat has been used in EAA waters before the RCD implimention date (It is something like 16 July 1996?) then it is exempt having to conform to the RCD requirements. If you have proof ie marina bill, notarised statement from a previous owner etc then CEProof can, for about £150, issue you a statement in all the EU languages to state that you are exempt from the RCD.
2) I gather, from hearsay, that if you enter the EU via the Azores you can either tell the Portugese vat man the value of your boat for VAT purposes or allow him to determine the value. If he determines the value, you can officially challange his value and then pay the VAT. If you do this then no other VAT authority can ask for more VAT if they think the value was to low. (I need to check this out thoughtly myself before coming back accross the pond.)
| Talbot |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 21:43 |
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Re: Buying in US to liveaboard..
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I believe that you can bring the boat into the EU without worrying about RCD and CE provided you do not intend to sell in the EU. The import tax is another problem.
| Bejasus |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 22:44 |
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Re: Thanks for your replys!
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Vat in the Azores is now 15% there is nowhere now in the EU with a rate less than this, although soem of the newer member states were given a period of grace for boats that were already registered there when they joined. I think Malta was one such example.
RCD/CE compliance is required if you wish to sell the boat in the EU and it is not exempt. If you have no intention of selling the boat in EU waters then it may be possible to ignore it, although if you are officially importing the boat, then that may be a different matter.
| jonic |
| (regular) |
| 11/05/2008 23:41 |
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Re: Thanks for your replys!
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The information I have is that RCD is required not just if you wish to sell, but when the boat is first put into service in the EEA. Here are some of my notes from the RYA
The following notes give step by step procedures for builders and responsible persons for ensuring the compliance
of boats with the RCD.
Does the boat need to comply with the RCD?
A boat does need to comply with the RCD if it is not one of the exclusions below and if:-
It was/is first placed on the EEA market after 16 June 1998
It was/is put into service in the EEA after 16 June 1998 (this included boats imported from outside the EEA)
It is a home built boat placed on the market within five years of completion
It is an experimental or racing boat being redesigned for compliance with the RCD
A boat does not need to comply with the RCD if:-
It is one of the exclusions listed in Appendix 2
It was built in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It was in use in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It is only visiting the EEA for reasons of tourism or in transit (time scales are undefined)
RCD
If you are an RYA member I would contact them for advice. You may be able to claim exemption due to tourism or transit, but I suspect if you are an EU citizen and the boat would be flagged accordingly that may be difficult. Worth getting it right because although you don't hear of enforcement often, it does happen and the penalty is stiff.
For an offence under the RCD, the person responsible for first placing the craft on the market or taking it into service the maximum penalty for breaching the RCD is 3 months imprisonment or a £5000 fine. This applies equally to private individuals and those in business. Although a prosecution must be brought with one year from the date of the offence there are other processes which can be invoked on the discovery of a non-compliant or falsely CE marked craft. For some offences under the GPSD the penalties can be up to a £20,000 fine and up to 12 months imprisonment.
| majdrew |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 12:26 |
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Hi!
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yes it does seem that finding some sort of proof that the vessel has been in EU waters is the best way to go..
Regarding VAT.. how would anyone know if you've paid VAT on the boat or not?
Mark.
| shamrock |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 12:48 |
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RCD / CE Marking
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When I bought my boat she was in the UK but not RCD compliant having been brought in from the Caribbean by the seller. So the broker and I did a lot of research.
- It's illegal to sell, buy or use the boat in EU waters
- It can never become compliant unless you do all the paperwork / cost. Waiting, leaving and returning etc etc does not do it
- British authorities don't appear to check or care about secondhand boats. Mainland europe might be a different matter and the penalties could be harsh (impoundment, big fines etc) but I think you'd have to annoy them some other way before they chase you for RCD compliance
Because I was leaving Europe I negotiated a big discount and bought the boat anyway. Strictly speaking, that made all three of us (buyer, seller, broker) criminals - it's a criminal offence.
But then I managed to track down the second owner (I'm the fifth), who'd had her for fifteen years in the Caribbean. He has his old log books and was able to certify that the boat had visited Martinique and Guadeloupe before 1998 - this makes her exempt from the RCD and I'm legal again, if we ever return to the EU!
So the EU waters before 1998 exemption thing is very useful, because it's actually the waters of the EEA which include all the European dependencies in the Caribbean and elsewhere. If buying a boat from this side of the Atlantic, see whether she has been to the Eastern Caribbean and there is a good chance she will be exempt on that basis.
Good luck.
| Tranona |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 16:11 |
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Re: Hi!
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This is much more tricky. If the boat is imported, you will have a receipt for VAT from HMRC if in the UK. I paid VAT on a ex charter boat in Greece and have a VAT invoice on the agreed value and receipt from the dealer with his VAT number on it. In the UK many boats documents do not include the original VAT receipt, but it seems that once you have a Bill of Sale from a previous owner this is taken as evidence that VAT has been paid. If your boat was built pre 1975(?) when VAT came in on boats and used in the UK then none of this stuff applies to you.