| ChartScrubba |
| (regular) |
| 09/04/2006 16:13 |
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What makes a Classic - Classic
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Or do you just mean old and knackered?
| Mariposa |
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| 09/04/2006 16:34 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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No. Just created by craftsmen and maintained with dedication. Not popped out of a jelly mould by some adolescent on a youth training scheme.
And before those with GRP classics leap down my throat, there are several GRP yachts created by craftsmen and maintained with dedication. Not popped out of a jelly mould by some adolescent on a youth training scheme.
| LakeSailor |
| (regular) |
| 09/04/2006 18:34 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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It gets asked a lot, this question.
No good answers yet.
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
| Huffin |
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| 10/04/2006 11:07 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Just to complicate matters...
Run-of-the mill Cortina: Absolutely Not
Lotus Cortina (white with the olive green stripe) : Yes!
Like the man said - it's all in the eye of the beholder.
| Victorious |
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| 10/04/2006 11:52 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Quote:
I reckon it must involve the regard in which the craft was held when it was new.
If people thought it was a beauty, and leader in it's class, a real gem, then as an old lady it must be a Classic.
The parrallel can be drawn with cars. An E-Type, a Mini Cooper S, a Lagonda with a hand-built cabrio body, an MGTD, A Triumph 1800 Roadster, a Rover 3 Litre. Many cars have a long history of being revered and sought after, or just plain held in esteem and are Classics now.
An A40 Farina, a Morris 1000, a Ford Cortina?
Certainly not Classics.
Victorious was built.. down to a price..nailed together . as a workboat...With an expected lifespan of only a decade or two... one of many.... No "outstanding" workmanship....Very rough indeed if compared to an A40..... is she not a classic?
| Manx_Nobby |
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| 11/04/2006 09:31 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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I think te word 'classic' is greatly over used and as has been said, almost impossible to define.
For my part I have no idea whether White Heather justifies the title 'Classic Boat' or not, I dont think I have ever used it.
To me White Heather is just my boat, my old boat, a member of my family, my occasional home, my place of tranquility, my source of pride and satisfaction and I am her current keeper, one of a long line so far and I hope, unless I make a big cock up, part of a line that will extend well into the future.
To me this phrase is more a marketing type phrase - NOW I have set the cat amongst the pigeons!!!
Mike
| LakeSailor |
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| 11/04/2006 10:45 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Lotus Cortina qualifies "leader in it's class, a real gem,"
| LakeSailor |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 10:50 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Victorious is a beautifully restored example of a work boat. I think you've done a fantastic job.
But I'm not convinced she is a Classic.
I've restored an old Heron dinghy (50 this year). It's not a classic. It's a nicely restored Heron dinghy.
| Mirelle |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 11:22 |
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Nice Old Boats.
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I have a Nice Old Boat.
And I am more than happy with that.
| Peterduck |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 11:28 |
Re: Nice Old Boats.
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Snap, Mirelle!
Peter.
| Old_Salt |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 11:35 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Well I have a 1985 Audi Quattro She's come of age 21 years old and I consider her to be of a "Very Classic Marque".
Over 145000 mls and she will still blow the arse off most.
Got into a naughty habit in the early days only over took any one on corners and still do it on the odd occasion.
| Kristal |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 11:40 |
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If she were a road vehicle...
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I've heard tell of two projects to build copies of my boat in the last two years. Does that make her a classic?
I think she's something akin to an MGA - small, quick for her size and age, a bit uncomfortable, and not guaranteed to keep the rain out all the time, but pretty and quite unique.
Anybody else think of any nice car analogies? For instance, I've been up close to Mirelle a few times, and would liken her a little to a pre-war Bentley - hand-built, solid, weighty, dependable and not something to get in front of whilst travelling at speed...
| Mukes |
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| 11/04/2006 11:52 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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I think there is a difference between a Classic and something of historical importance. Extending the car analogy - as my knowledge with cars is far more extensive than that of boats - In my opinion, the MK1 Lotus Cortina is/was an important car - (for reasons I will not bore a boating forum with) however I would still consider a normal MK1 Cortina to be a Classic. The difference is I think is the MK1 Lotus Cortina was important from the outset and has, as with the normal MK1 Cortina, become a classic with time. The former is an important classic and as such commands a far higher value than the latter which has just, with time, passed a subjective milestone which gives classic status. (All in my opinion of course.)
| Mirelle |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 18:38 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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Funnily enough, when launched, in August 1937, she cost exactly the same as a 4 1/4 litre Park Ward Derby Bentley.
A tale is told of her first owner, Philip Allen, by Dick Larkman, who served his time at her builders, Whisstocks.
"We thought he was quite well off, but when his Bentley wouldn't start, and a Rolls-Royce arrived, with a chauffeur, to pick him up, we were sure!"
However, since Dick is not yet a centenarian I believe that this tale relates to a later period, when Philip had either "Corista" (26 ton gaff cutter built for him by Whisstocks) or "Tallulah" (16 ton bermuda yawl built for him by Whisstocks)!
The other good Philip story (which he confirmed) was that he went to see William Blake with a roll of drawings under his arm for "Mirelle", he did the same with Jack Jones for "Corista" but when he got round to "Tallulah" he cut out the middle man and just gave Claude Whisstock his drawings, not bothering to have them checked first.
"Mirelle" is based on WA Robinson's "Svaap" (a John Alden transom stern bermuda ketch, turned into a counter sterned gaff cutter!) but "Corista" was not based on "Dyarchy" - the similarity was coincidence.
| Mirelle |
| (regular) |
| 11/04/2006 18:51 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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MGA? 1927?
Surely more of a Chain Gang Frazer Nash!
| contessa26 |
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| 11/04/2006 23:21 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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You mentioned ‘Svaap’? Is that the ‘Svaap’ that circumnavigated in the late 1920’s (with a transom stern!)? The first boat to do so with a two-man crew? What a lovely boat…
| Mirelle |
| (regular) |
| 12/04/2006 00:37 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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Yes.
Philip told me so himself. He was building the boat to go to the West Indies, Robinson's book had just been published and so he said, "Why re-invent the wheel?"
The differences in the hull are very slight - Blake rounded up the forefoot to make her self-steer better, in accordance with the metacentric shelf theory, and she gained a very elegant counter, which is definitely an improvement, as it never slams and adds bouyancy aft, besides looking good. Other than that, they are practically the same boat, and you can put one lines plan on top of the other. But seeing the boat in the water with bowsprit, deadeyes and lanyards and so on, she looks so "English" that one would hardly credit it.
| tillergirl |
| (regular) |
| 12/04/2006 10:24 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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I worked with a guy in the late 60's who had an MGA. It didn't matter about the rain getting in it seemed to me because it was very difficult to keep on the road when it rained. Whilst wonderful in many ways, it cured me of old sports car desires. Quite the contrary happened to me with boats but then I find the 40 yr old TG so much more comfortable and reliable in nasty stuff than the light plastic thing we chartered in the Ionian Sea. For the first time I experienced a serious feeling of not being in control. At the sake of being shouted down, I don't really like this is it classic or not debate, though it can be interesting or amusing at times. I rather like thinking of something as 'epochal' a word used by motoring journalist and author Doug Nye to describe vehicles that made a serious contribution to where we are today, or 'lovely' since they grace us. 'Classic' I'm afraid for me conjures up the picture of an investor and a market place.
| contessa26 |
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| 13/04/2006 00:12 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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Thanks for the interesting info; and ‘Mirelle’ is a lovely vessel. And as you say, it’s an interesting subject, spotting the differences and detailing of designs from either side of the Atlantic. Or even – thinking a boat is from this side of the Atlantic, when she’s actually an ‘Alden’… Or an O Stephens.
I love an ‘Alden’ – look at ‘Malabar XIII’…
I know nothing whatsover about boats. But when I think of Alden, I think mainly of the later post-war John G. Alden & Co, Inc designs – ie ‘Minots Light’, ‘Margaree’, the Challenger class… Obviously I’ve been reading too much of Arthur Beiser’s book ‘The Proper Yacht’…!
| Raedwald |
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| 13/04/2006 08:14 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Looking at the replies above, the criteria that seem to be emerging are:
1. Designed by a 'named' designer
2. More than 30 years old
3. Still draws admiring looks
My own humble vessel only meets one of these criteria (Bill Waight) and is therefore just an old boat and not a classic.
| RupertW |
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| 13/04/2006 12:17 |
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Re: What makes a Classic - Classic
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Mine meets two and in a couple of years will meet the third, but in no way do I consider it a classic. It's a production MAB Westerly from the 70s.
Doesn't it have to be wooden and have achieved some sort of status or achievement, or simply look like a near-perfect design of its type?
If an ugly duckling can turn into a classic when it gets to 30 will it suddenly be worth heaps more??
| fishinthehead |
| (new user) |
| 13/04/2006 17:44 |
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Re: Nice Old Boats.
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A classic is possibly something that is secondhand - Or Something designed and engineered in way that meets everybodies idea of how it should be. Thus a brand new Rustler is a classic. An old Hurley 22 is also a classic. A brand new Bavaria 37 isnt a classic until it is secondhand. And anything made of wood is a classic because all our children for the past 30 years have only been taught how to research,describe or talk about things- rather than make or repair them.Thus they need that mythical character "The skilled person" to build them.
Oh I nearly forgot - To be a classic there is also a requirement for an appreciation society,club or general endorsement through a fan website with a Chairman, a Secretary,a Treasurer and bunch of self obsessed anoracks who know everything about anything but probably have no physical skills or perceptive abilities.
Oh and finally as I have witnessed many times - A classic boat is not a restoration of some rotting haulk from the past 2 centuries. Its more - "Lets find as much history as possible about the rotting hulk". - Get some skilled craftsmen to make something on similar lines but with better accomodation. Bung in a stove, some winches and obligitory teak decks.Slap the old name on the bows.Launch it with at least one of the yachting publications present. And bask in self importance for a couple of years - Happy in the knowledge that all you boati pals envy you for discovering and saving a part of history.
But maybe I have been offshore too long
| LakeSailor |
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| 14/04/2006 13:43 |
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Re: Nice Old Boats.
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Quote:
An old Hurley 22 is also a classic.
'avin' a larf
| MrG_too |
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| 14/04/2006 19:42 |
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Re: Nice Old Boats.
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Quote:
But maybe I have been offshore too long
Some may say not nearly long enough....
| Kristal |
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| 15/04/2006 19:55 |
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Re: If she were a road vehicle...
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To be honest with you, I'm not fond of the classic thing either. Crystal is undeniably a 'classic', yet I'm bored with that now - I used to get a kick out of it, but these days I've run out of things to say to passing admirers, however much I appreciate their appreciation. Nowadays, she's my boat and she's a reflection of my personal taste in boats. She's loved for who she is, not what she is.
Still buy Classic Boat, though...
/<