| johnny_h |
| (regular) |
| 22/04/2008 19:19 |
anchoring at sea
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It's probably a really daft question but I'm pretty new to boating, so please bear with me.
I have a small boat and am wondering about using the anchor while out at sea. How does it work in terms of depth? If I throw the anchor over and I'm in sea which is deeper than my anchor rope is, is there anything I can/should do? Is there any sense in it dangling there? Should I just get a longer rope? I've done this in a rib on my PB level 1 course, but I assume the instructor knew the depths etc. Whereas if I go somewhere I'm unsure about, what do I do if I'm in really deep water?
Thanks for your help on this.
For info I have a small 5.5 meter powerboat with a grappling anchor attached to an anchor chain and anchor rope bought from the people who supplied the boat. I've no idea how long the rope is though!
Thanks
| blueglass |
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| 22/04/2008 19:31 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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you need anchor line about 4 times the depth of the water. An anchor dangling over the side and not reaching the bottom is clearly not going to work. as regards anchoring in really deep water - you don't really want to be doing that. You will want to anchor inshore in sheltered water.
| damon |
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| 22/04/2008 19:33 |
Re: anchoring at sea
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Looks like you need a bit of training. RYA powerboat 2 books are available, most of this stuff is in there. BAsically you'll need at least 3 time the depth in rope/chain.
Grapling anchors are great for scaling castle walls, not much good for anchoring. Danforth or similar is a good cheap solution, you can get them in a kit with chain and rope at the chandlers.
| sarabande |
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| 22/04/2008 19:37 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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you can use a form of anchor, but they are known as sea anchors, or drogues.
All they do is slow the boat's drift down, by sitting deep in the water (which may be going in a different direction from the wind, under the influence of tidal streams.
steady boys, steady !
| johnny_h |
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| 22/04/2008 19:52 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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So are grapling anchors not much use then? I was told in the shop it would be fine for my boat. Should I have been sold something else?
| sarabande |
| (regular) |
| 22/04/2008 20:00 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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the four blade folding grapple is SOME use, but it does not dig in and hold as well as other anchors of similar mass such as CQR, Bruce, Rocna, Fortress, Bugel, and on, and on, and on.
If you are thinking of anchoring seriously, then leave the grapnel ashore.
Start with the Wiki article, here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor
| johnny_h |
| (regular) |
| 22/04/2008 20:04 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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So for my small boat (5.5 meters) what size/weight of anchor should I be looking at getting?
| Simon_ |
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| 22/04/2008 20:07 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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The grapnel is perfect for most anchoring you'll do on the beach - run out the chain, shove the grapnel in the sand/mud/pebbles. The boat won't float away when the tide comes in and you are all getting back on board. I doubt you'll be doing much anchoring at sea and coastal anchoring is usually in abut 3 to 5 meters of water cos you're fishing. Check you've got 10 meters of chain and 10 meters of rope. Then grab a book on powerboating and have a go - lets face it, 90% of anchoring is whilst you're stopped for lunch and you're not going to be spending a night at anchor.
| johnny_h |
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| 22/04/2008 20:12 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Yes, we've no intention of spending the night on the anchor. It's more as you say for coastal anchoring, so we can not drift while we turn the engine off and read, chat, or just relax.
My concern was about being just offshore and not knowing what the depth of the water was and chucking the anchor over and not really knowing what to expect from there, especially if the anchor didn't appear to hit the bottom.
| carlton |
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| 22/04/2008 20:32 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Fit a depth sounder to your boat.
Learn about tides/tidal range - especially in your chosen anchoring area.
Make sure you have plenty of 'scope' when you anchor, including a decent length of chain - not just rope. The weight of the chain helps keep the anchor in the correct position to get a good amount of purchase on the sea bed.
The anchor will prove useless unless it has a good grip on the sea bed. It's this grip that holds the boat in position against the tide/wind.
Read some online articles on anchoring - as already supplied on this thread.
| realslimshady |
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| 22/04/2008 20:34 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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bung a depth sounder on your boat. you can get them for forty quid on ebay-you'll know what depth of water you're in, for anchoring purposes-and will hopefully stop you clouting the bottom at low tide!
you'll get your money back the first time you don't damage your prop
| Malabar |
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| 22/04/2008 20:47 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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You will find some useful advice at http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html
Doesn't mean you have to use a fortress anchor, although there are many who would recommend them. Some anchors are better for mud, others for sand. Many don't like a weedy bottoms. Choosing an appropriate chain/rope combination is as important as choosing the anchor itself. Finally, rope with a lead core for the "wet" end is becoming popular.
| OceanFroggie |
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| 22/04/2008 20:58 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Think of an anchor as a hook that only works if it is dug into the sea bed and being pulled horizontally, rather that a weight which it is not.
An anchor must be "set", you can't just chuck it over the side, pile a heap on chain on top of it and expect it to hold, you've got to dig it in.
The "scope" of an anchor works best when 5 to 7 times the depth depending on conditions. Don't forget to allow for the the rise and fall of the tide, and the effect of tidal stream reversal on your swinging arc.
| Nick_H |
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| 22/04/2008 22:40 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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If you have no idea what the depth of the water is going to be, it sounds as though you are not using any kind of chart. You only need a modest amount of training to get out on the water, but a basic appreciation of a nautical chart is really an absolute minimum.
| hlb |
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| 22/04/2008 23:14 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Presumably the PB1 trainer man showed you a chart and roughly how to use it.
To simplify all from above. Let the anchor down, till you feel bottom. Then you need about three times as much spare. If not, go some where else. Your only doing it for lunch stops, if the boat moves, it's not the end of the world. If it moves to much. More chain and maybe better anchor. Though not convinced type of anchor makes much difference. Chain does.
| marc1957 |
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| 23/04/2008 01:22 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Spend £60 and join the R.N.L.I. "Offshore". You can order a "Sea Safety" CD rom that gives information on anchoring, winds, tides, engines, lifejackets, flares etc. etc. Plus all the previous advice about charts etc. You can also get a "Sea Safety" check that will cost you literally tea & biscuits. This is a check on your boat, your equipment and your knowledge of the sea. It is not "Pass or Fail", you are given very good advice, usually from a good old "sea dog" who will answer all your questions I had one last year and learned a hell of a lot more than ropes and charts!! Far too much to list here!!! Good luck and happy sailing!
| pac |
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| 23/04/2008 17:32 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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No need to join... this is from the RNLI web site
There are many other pieces of advice related to boating safety that are covered within the CD-ROM of Sea Safety, The Complete Guide, available free from www.rnli.org.uk/seasafety or 0800 328 0600 (UK) or 1800 789 589 (RoI)
Just call and get it FREE
| Searush |
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| 23/04/2008 19:03 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Chart, tide table & compass plus marked lead line will allow you to work out where you are and current/ likely depth of water. The cost could be under 30 quid total. You should not be out there if you can't find out where you are & don't know what hazards there are under the water.
Grapnel is fine for beach use & lunch stops, or even for fishing. But if over a wreck you will risk loosing any anchor without a trip line from the "wrong" end to release it from any potential snags.
| pac |
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| 24/04/2008 00:29 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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That is all very well for you to say but you already have the experience and know how to use those items... it sounds like he doesn't. Just spending that £30 probably won't do him much good unless he gets some training in how to use them.
It is all very well to say he shouldn't be out there if he can't find out where you are etc but that is not what the law suggests... there is no licencing requirement nor any training requirement so why shouldn't he be out there? According to the law he has every right to be out there and in a separate thread the vast majority of people would seem to agree!
| CBT |
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| 24/04/2008 08:27 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Get on to a RYA basic safety and navigation 2 day course - this will teach you what you need to know to keep yourself and others safe. It has been designed specifically for small boat users like yourself. It will also help all of us to keep the licensing lobby at bay! Call the RYA or any Sea School for advice on the course. Your honestly put question shows that you really need direct and practical advice and a bit of training.
| Andrew_Fanner |
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| 24/04/2008 08:54 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Johnny.
Its well worth talking to local boaters and indeed any local fishermen. They will have a collective set of knowledge about tidal ranges, good anchoring sports and which, of the numerous types of anchor, works best in which locale. The grapnel you describe sounds like one of those folding jobs to me, not too bulkin in a 5.5m boat, definately OK if you dig it in yourself, less so if left to its own devices, so a beach hook rather than anything else. If you are using it while constantly afloat I would consider sticking a lot of chain on it with rope primarily as a shock absorber and for peace and quiet.
Where are you located?
| Searush |
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| 24/04/2008 11:58 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Fairy Nuff, Arny, but there are hundreds of "How to do it" books in the shops & libraries. I read something like one a week when I got my first boat, & tried out the ideas at home & when I went afloat.
After a short time you are in a position to know what works & what doesn't & then you get annoyed with the half of the books that you don't agree with! Just read a couple of books & MOST of it becomes commonsense. But then, I'm a long standing professional trainer, used to writing & presenting courses, so I don't see much benefit in going on someone else's training courses!
| Nick_H |
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| 24/04/2008 12:17 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Quote:
& tried out the ideas at home & when I went afloat
Wow. Doesn't the anchor make a mess of the shag pile?
| Searush |
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| 24/04/2008 13:04 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Quote:Quote:
& tried out the ideas at home & when I went afloat
Wow. Doesn't the anchor make a mess of the shag pile?
Not half as much as when I painted the inflatable in the lounge while SWMBO was away for a few days. I've got a set of wash boards varnished to the chest freezer in the hall at the moment & the dining table is covered with sails & a sewing machine. Doesn't everybody play with boaty stuff at home?
| tico |
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| 24/04/2008 15:25 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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SWMBO has never forgiven me for having an old Johnson 50 o/board stripped down, in pieces all over the kitchen floor for a week or so while I waited for spares!
| jokaboat |
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| 24/04/2008 15:54 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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If it's any help I have 5 metres of chain and 30 metres of rope attached to a Danforth. Not sure offhand how heavy it is. It holds very well around the Solent in mud and shingle and stores easily.
Also good for holding off a beach.
Ok up to 5-7 metres depth. I try for 6 x depth but can get away with 5 x depth if relatively calm and not too much tide.
That's on an 18ft Larson.
| pac |
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| 24/04/2008 19:40 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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That is fine for you Searush and I am glad self help like that works for you... it works for me too.
But for many it doesn't. Many people, if they have to find things out for themselves and learn from books and from the internet, just don't feel comfortable and many won't do it if that is the only option.
I do agree with you... if you can do it then do it and learn for yourself. For the rest a course will help.
| johnny_h |
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| 25/04/2008 14:46 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Hey, thanks for all the advice. I know I must sound a bit green. I have done the level 2 PB course and convered anchoring in that, and I've read some books but to be honest I still feel like I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing!! Don't worry, as a result I'm not taking the boat out to sea until I can try things out in a "safe-ish environment". I've talked to and been out with a knowledgable local, but like anything you're not used to I'm still finding my feet on this. To be honest I'm trying to behave responsibly and find out what I should be doing rather than just giving it a go and hoping for the best.
I do think, like many activities, there is a degree of over-complication and also over-simplification and neither of these help one access a new activity that easily.
I did do a bit of chart work on the PB course, but it's not something I feel confident with at the moment. Does that mean I shouldn't be out on the water? I'm not sure how to get better unless I start doing some of this, though!
I've made enquiries about an RYA course for navigation so hopefully that'll help too.
| pac |
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| 26/04/2008 23:41 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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I certainly have no problem with your question... it wasn't that long ago I was in the same position of having just done PB2 and was moving on to bigger things and I too asked a lot of questions... that is a great way to learn!
It is great that you asked it and as you can see many people here want to help.
You have my help anytime.
| Sultans_Kapitein |
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| 27/04/2008 10:11 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Yes creating a 'Passage Plan' can be daunting, but take heart. We are not talking about plotting your course here, we are talking about getting to know your 'backyard'. If you buy a chart of your intended area of use and sit at home staring at all the symbols, you will see after a while that you will understand what depth of water there is or will be where ever you might wish to go. Also you will get to understand what dangers may be lurking on the sea bed, wrecks, pipelines mud etc. It is only by becomig familar with charts that you will get to understand them. I have done the courses and know what you mean about having the confidence to use the knowledge from the course, but only by reading a chart will you be able get to know your area.
What ever you do, don't get put off by this. Enjoy your boat, and get out on the water.
Mal
| MajorCatastrophe |
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| 29/04/2008 13:06 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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My best advice to you is to go out for a day - with a crew member - do 'a bit of anchoring' in a known depth. Practice deploying and weighing the anchor, especially in a tidal stream, were you may need to use a bit of engine power to take the strain off your arms.
Practice makes perfect and it is better to practice under your conditions that have to do it in a howling gale in an emergency.
Be prepared, be practiced.
| lenseman |
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| 24/06/2008 16:52 |
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Re: anchoring at sea
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Whereabouts in the world do you live and keep your boat?
I am sure there are folk on here who would meet you and give freely of their time and give you one-on-one training for the day?
It might cost you a beer though?