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Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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A forecaster on the BBC R4 Today programme this morning spoke of Haar when that master of interrupting somebody who is speaking, John Humphries, cried out Haar? with a large question mark in his intonation, ignoramus that he is.
Coastal fog has different names in different parts of the country. Some, f'rinstance, call it Fret. What do you call it?
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Stingo
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 08:22
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Fog.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Murk
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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But what sort? It matters.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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That's original! 
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Iota
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 08:40
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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sea fret as adverse to a hill fret i.e. on moors etc
Iota
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Yep.... we're users of the grand term 'Murk' to.......
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Haar is very specific to the east coast of Scotland, appearing on a NE wind in the spring and early summer. On the west coast of Scotland fog is fog.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Sludge.........as in "it's looking a bit sludgey out there today".........
By the way, John Humphries, ignorant??? He may be a lot of things, but I don't think you can rightly say that he is ignorant.
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Jimi
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 08:50
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Clag
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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I agree with Ken McC
Haar is fairly specific to the North Sea coast and is usually a spring/early summer event. Something to do with cold water and warm winds, or is it warm wind an cold water.
It can be a real curse in Edinburgh. If you live near the shore you can spend a week in cold dark clammy stuff when half a mile up the road is in glorious sunshine
On the West Coast it's just fog
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Teredo
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09/05/2008 10:22
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Ken, haar is in use here, as well as fret.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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'Haar' is derivative in the Northumberland and Fife dialects from Norse/Dansk roots, and one will hear it used from Aberdeenshire to Whitby.
There is also 'Smirn', which also describes a tiny-droplet, soaking drizzle - which is one step up from 'haar'. It's the same stuff....
Just as the Inuit have close on a thousand words for snow, so do the Scots have a similar number of expressions for rain - not all of 'em repeatable on a family show!
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Sea fog/Haar. Formed when air which is close to saturation passes over a colder surface ie the sea. This causes cooling of the air mass so bringing the temperature down to the dew point. The moisture condenses out as fog or drizzle. This is a more dynamic process that the gentle cooling over land which is why sea fog can be found in 40kts of wind. Incidentally in my experience of the East Coast of Scotland it is more prevalent in SE rather thn NE winds.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Bloody annoying!
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Jimi
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 11:20
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
We still do, too often
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Used to be called a roke (spelling?) in East Yorkshire
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kds
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 11:56
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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"Burnham Blight" on this side of the Bristol Channel.
Ken
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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FWIW on Exmoor, I've heard low cloud and fog described as "myseling".
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
It can be a real curse in Edinburgh. If you live near the shore you can spend a week in cold dark clammy stuff when half a mile up the road is in glorious sunshine
Indeed. I am just back in town after visiting a site in Midlothian, about 10M inland and 200m altitude, it's a warm summer day there and rather chilly here near the sea at an altitude of about 30m.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Misty - vis about a mile
thick - vis about half a mile
Thick as a bag - can't see the quay across the harbour
Mizzlin - if its misty and lightly drizzling
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smeaks
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 13:18
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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may and june
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jenku
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 13:29
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
Used to be called a roke (spelling?) in East Yorkshire
This sounds like the most norse word to me as it is called (sjö)rök in Swedish and the Norwegian pronounciation should sound something like "royk". The meaning is essentially (sea)smoke.
Haar isn't something that I can connect to any Scandinavian/Norse word, at least right now...
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Jimi
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 13:51
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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I've always thought the word Haar to have a Dutch connection,(suprisingly many Scots words have this origin as there was much interchange between the nations). My grandfather (from Fife originally but resident in Edinburgh) always spoke of the cold east wind haar, associating it with both mist and a cold east wind. The Scots dictionary definition tends to confirm this
"The word is of Dutch origin, coming either from Middle Dutch hare, a biting wind, or Frisian harig, damp"
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Ah. Found a page from someone in East Yorkshire with mention of sea rokes and pictures.
Here
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
Wasn't that word invented by David Ike?
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Jimi
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 14:57
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
Wasn't that word invented by David Ike?
Possibly, but must have been in one of his a previous lives, again probably of Dutch origin
miz·zle 1 (mzl)
intr.v. miz·zled, miz·zling, miz·zles
To rain in fine, mistlike droplets; drizzle.
n.
A mistlike rain; a drizzle.
[Middle English misellen; probably akin to Dutch dialectal mieselen
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
'Haar' is derivative in the Northumberland and Fife dialects from Norse/Dansk roots
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary the word is "perhaps from Old Norse harr meaning hairy or hoary".
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peterb
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 15:06
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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The Concise Oxford gives it as a seafog on the east coast of England or Scotland (I've heard it in Norfolk), and suggest that it comes from the old Norse word for "hoar". It gives hoar as having Germanic roots and meaning grey.
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Jimi
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 15:13
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Interestingly even in my lifetime the meaning of this word has altered. In NE Scotland as a youth it was used to refer more to the cold wind than the mist associated with it. In these days, prior to BBC english, words meant different things in different areas. Now, I agree, it is associated more with a sea fog than anything else.
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Agree: The various types of 'Fret'
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I'm from North Devon (once upon a long time ago)
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Definitely Haar in East Scotland. However, I remember being on holiday on the coast near Dorchester when the local radio referred to it as being 'a bit humid' - classic sea fog, 10 degrees colder than just inland!
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SimonT
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 15:31
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
Ken, haar is in use here, as well as fret.
haar is the result of a specific wind direction, whereas fret isn't, then there's smirn - where you get wet by walking in it.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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"Haar" is also a term used in the Fens for a thankfully infrequent condition when fine, dry soil is lifted into the air in high pressure hot conditions. I have lived in the Fens for nearly 30 years and have only seen it once or twice, thankfully - it is very unpleasant. But I gather it used to be more common.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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AFAIK we call it the eastern haar here in Scotland.
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doris
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 19:20
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Convection fog v. Advection fog.
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So which is which??
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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A good radar day!
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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A bad Haar day..maybe
I've heard Haar and Fret used regularly in the north east. I knew they were different, but didn't know why. Roke is a new one on me though, which goes to show you never stop learning. Roker Park (foggy place once inhabited by footballers). Oh alright, I made that one up. 
Tim
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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So who's gonna tell John Humphries....?
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peterb
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(regular)
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09/05/2008 23:01
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Dunno, but you can almost predict a haar whenever there's a south-easterly along the east coast in the summer. The lines of equal sea temperature (isotherms?) run out north easterly from the coast. The August plot shows a line at 17C extending north-easterly from the Thames Estuary, then others at 16C from Lowestoft, 15C from Grimsby, 14C from Whitby and 13C from Berwick. Look in the Admiralty North Sea Pilots. So a south-easterly comes across sea several degrees warmer than the sea at the coast; the air picks up moisture over the warmer sea then drops it as it cools down, giving the mist/fret/haar/roke/what-have-you. It's one of those classic situations that is taught (or ought to be) in the Met section of every shore-based sailing course.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Yes. Several times, yes.
"....warm moist air advected over a cold sea."
Here are some more bog-standard locations for *spring/early summer* sea fog.....
NW of Guernsey, NW of Brittany, Solway Firth/Morecambe Bay, N of Costa del Muerte - all due to cold water upwelling and snow-melt run-off. And if you venture north of Ardnamurchan before the First of May, you'll need to watch out for the dreaded ice-blink!
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Oi knew that Exmoor was a bit behind the times, but Middle English Spoken Here ? thanks
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peterb
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(regular)
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10/05/2008 10:56
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
Quote:
Used to be called a roke (spelling?) in East Yorkshire
This sounds like the most norse word to me as it is called (sjö)rök in Swedish and the Norwegian pronounciation should sound something like "royk". The meaning is essentially (sea)smoke.
Haar isn't something that I can connect to any Scandinavian/Norse word, at least right now...
But sea smoke is something different. It happens when very cold air passes over a warmer sea (the other way round to haar). The water evaporating from the sea re-condenses to form wisps of mist close to the surface. Uncommon round English coasts, but sometimes found round Scotland. Heat some water up in a frying pan, remove from the heat, and look at the wispy steam above the pan; that's sea smoke. You'll sometimes hear it mentioned in the shipping forecast: "poor - smoke"
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Quote:
You'll sometimes hear it mentioned in the shipping forecast: "poor - smoke"
That used to be in the coastal station report from Ronaldsway when there was an easterly wind. It referred to all the gunge coming from NW England's industrial heartlands. Not so much about these days.
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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Don't know about Jenku's explanation but these pics (from the link I gave) are what we knew as a roke
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dsw
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11/05/2008 01:27
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Re: Coastal fog - what do you call it?
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as thick as pee soup !
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