| hisw |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 17:04 |
Insurance and Surveys
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Having just purchased a new boat, I am having difficulty getting insurance. I had a very good surveyor do a report and he spent a good 10 hours on the boat.
The items identified in the report are not major but just are not perfect and are defects. But a boat that has been round the world a couple of time is likely to have a few.
The insurance company wanted to see a copy of it and have said it is a lot more detailed that they usually get!
They have however said that they need all the items in the survey addressing before they will give cover.
The report is a good 40-page document and not all the items need addressing.
Having explained to them that this is a bit unrealistic, they are proposing to do exclusion "Excluding all claims arising out of failure to correct defects identified in the survey"
If there is ever a problem, I am sure that they will find a way of saying it was in the report.
Even if I address all the points in the report, there is no way of proving that they have been done without getting another survey.
What is the answer?
| Tranona |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 17:19 |
Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Change your insurance company. The surveyor has probably graded his recommendations, essential, desirable etc. Not unreasonable for insurers to ask for the esssentials to be done, but should be flexible on the others
| Morgana |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 17:21 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Yep.. look elsewhere.... their demands are unreasonable...
| hisw |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 17:25 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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He has given a list of 10 points that need addressing. Which I have said I will attend to. The insurers have however said that there are lots of other points in the survey which should be addressed also.
I think I will try with another company. Are they not all underwritten by the same fund at Lloyds?
| eastcoastbernie |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 18:11 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Phone up all the insurers you can. Some insist on a full out of the water survey with everything hunky dorey. Others are a bit more flexible.
I bought my boat at a low price because it had a poor survey. First thing I had to do was move it so it could be repaired. Big obstacle, no-one would insure it. Then I found an insurer who would insure it just for the delivery trip. Result!
Then, once all the work had been done I shopped around for insurance. Most of the insurers wanted a full out of the water survey. The only one I had said it was a wreck and I didn't fancy shelling out for another. I finally found an insurance company willing to accept the original survey (saying boat was a wreck) together with my assurance and documentary evidence (receipts) that the necessary work had been done.
Try some of the smaller insurance companies who don't have so many rules and regs and can be more flexible.
| Spars |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 18:18 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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When I bought my boat the Survey pointed out several items that needed fixing, which I did, and my Insurance company took my word that they had been fixed.
| John_Wilson |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 18:34 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Often worth getting a quote from the insurer the previous owner used - give them the boat name and previous owners name...
| Searush |
| (regular) |
| 14/05/2008 22:27 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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You could also just get 3rd party insurance if you don't mind carrying the risk to the boat yourself. This will satisfy most harbours. marinas etc & protect against injuries to passengers/ crew or other vessels.
I went thro' a broker (Desmond Cheers) I gave them my requirements & they found a suitable insurer. When my premium shot up this year I looked around myself & found a cheaper company & they went back to my insurer & negotiated a premium reduction.
| NobleMarine |
| (regular) |
| 15/05/2008 08:40 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Quite often, a surveyor will put time limits on any recommendations e.g. Items 1, 2 and 3 to be completed before launch, items 4 and 5 to be completed within 12 months etc.
If you're attending to the 10 urgent items, does the surveyor stipulate how serious the other remaining recommendations are or give a time limit by which they should be attended to? If he did, why will your insurance company not take this into account?
| AvastMark |
| (regular) |
| 15/05/2008 11:17 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Likewise, my surveyor broke down issues into three grades: essential, recommended, and advised. Many of the advised where simply matters of cosmetic appearance.
My insurers just asked that all essential requirements were carried out before the boat was used. They deemed the vessel to be laid up until I'd done all the work. I thought that was reasonable enough. They didn't ask me to carry out the recommended or advised work.
| SlowlyButSurely |
| (regular) |
| 15/05/2008 12:15 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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I've had this problem in the past too.
These days I always explain to the surveyor that the survey is for insurance purposes only and that if he feels like giving any superfluous "recommendations" they must go in a separate document, not in the survay report itself. Otherwise he doesn't get paid.
| dombuckley |
| (regular) |
| 16/05/2008 13:48 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Not quite sure about this: I'm pretty certain that you can't withhold payment just because you didn't like what he wrote.
The surveyor is bound by guidelines that the Report should be a fair and accurate appraisal of the vessel as seen. If you were buying a boat, and he didn't report a defect that he'd found, you would quite rightly hang him out to dry. As this is an insurance survey, if you instruct him not to include known defects in the report, the insurance company could hold both you and the surveyor to account for misrepresenting the condition (and thereby the value) of the vessel.
By all means ask the surveyor to list those items which do not impact on the immediate safety and integrity of the vessel as "Advisory Notes" (which many surveyors do anyway for exactly the reasons given above), but I would strongly caution against any coercion over the content of the report.
| Heras_Master |
| (regular) |
| 16/05/2008 18:20 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Dont do as I do ....do what I say! You should see the standard of his boat. Even I would say "not fit to go to sea" yet he was out sailing last weekend!!!!
| john_morris_uk |
| (regular) |
| 17/05/2008 08:05 |
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Re: Insurance and Surveys
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Can you give us some ideas as to what 'defects' the insurance company is suggesting be put right?
Whenever we've bought a boat, we have done the work suggested in the survey, kept the receipts and told the insurance company its been done. They have then issued the policy without question.