| Truant_Now |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 12:43 |
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Port of Registration and name??
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Hi all
You quite regularly see boats of all shapes and sizes with the boat name painted on the transom or stern, and then followed by the port of registration, for example " Truant... of Brighton "
My question is, does the " ...of Brighton " have to remain??
On the very fisrt Bill of Sale, the boat name was "Truant of Brighton" , but she has since been sold (I think) around 4 times, and on all the following bills the name is just "Truant" with no "...of Brighton" on the name.
I have removed the old name a replaced with a nice new one, (same name of course) but I was wondering if I needed to add the port of registration or wether I can add the river of where she is now kept, ie Medway or Gillingham.
Does any body know or have any thoughts on this??
Many thanx
| David361 |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 12:53 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Hi Andy,
Having the port of registration in the name implies that she was once listed on the Part 1 Register of Shipping. With the changes of ownership, you didn't mention whether, or where, she was now registered. Part 1 proves legal title, Part 3, Small Ships Register, says "I say this is my vessel and the Registry hasn't argued with me". SSR doesn't require port of registry.
The vessel doesn't need to be registered at all (unless she is bound for a foreign port) in which case call her what you want!
The Registery of Ships and Seamen, Cardiff, has a good website for the "correct" interpretation of the rules.
David
| Moonshiners |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 12:53 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I don't see why you cannot change it other than for physical reasons of being left with sunfaded lettering after removal.
IMHO - If your boat names is registered as "Gin Palace" then you should be able to replace with your current location.
I would only think it an issue if the original location was still part of the registered name.
| Teredo |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 12:56 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I changed the name of mine, as you have. Then I told my insurance co. Also phoned Coastguard who updated the details then and there. (I bet GC find more than a few Truants on the list)
Hell, I cannot remember if I updated the Small Ships Register!
The best bit though is the essential renaming ceremony (alcohol obligatory). Not all goes down your throat though, some must go in the drink for Neptune.
| Saltyjohn |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 13:16 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Careful, the ....of Timbuctoo bit is part of the boat name. The hailing port as it's called is not linked by ...of.
When you see a boat name such as Dreamer of Hamble it's because there is another Dreamer registered so that name is taken and the new registeree modifies the name to make it unique. Dreamer of Hamble could have a hailing port, usually written in black letters under the boat name on the stern, of Fleetwood.
If you just list your boat on the SSR you don't need a hailing port and can call the boat what you like, within reason.
| Morgana |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 13:19 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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To complicate things, there is the possibility to use the name 'Truant of Brighton' as the Part 1 name, and then have the port of registry as well, could be Brighton, might be Cardiff!
In theory, a Part 1 registered boat should show the port of registry..... so I guess theoretically, it would be 'Truant of Brighton of Cardiff'!!!!!!!! However, I think this is unlikely, and the registry would disallow it in reality....
A part 3 (SSR) boat could be called Truant, and as it doesn't have a port of registry doesn't need to show a port..... but it could also be called 'Truant of Brighton' in which case that is what it would show on its transom!
Gottit?
| RestlessL |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 13:31 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
In theory, a Part 1 registered boat should show the port of registry..... so I guess theoretically, it would be 'Truant of Brighton of Cardiff'!!!!!!!! However, I think this is unlikely, and the registry would disallow it in reality....
Not as unlikely as you think - The full name of Restless is "Restless of Langstone", and this is the name that appears on the Part 1 as the name. The port of choice (used to be the port of registry) is Southampton. Part 1 registration requires you to display both the registered name and the port of choice on the transom. So the lettering shows, on 2 lines, Restless of Langstone / Southampton
Part 3 is a bit easier, as the name is secondary and you only need to display the SSR number.
John
| DevonMark |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 13:48 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I am struggling with this with my new boat: If the boat name has "of somewhere" in it and the port of registry is also "somewhere" (assuming Part 1 registration) does that mean you still have to display the registration port? i.e. My New Boat Name of Plymouth / Plymouth...
Mark
| Morgana |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 13:49 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Yes!
| RestlessL |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 14:09 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
To complicate things, there is the possibility to use the name 'Truant of Brighton' as the Part 1 name, and then have the port of registry as well, could be Brighton, might be Cardiff!
Brighton is not a recognised port of choice, so "of Brighton" must be part of the ship name.
John
| Morgana |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 14:10 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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OK... so I didn't check official ports of registry....
| michael_w |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 14:14 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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For Part 1 compliance, you could have the "of" in tiny letters so it isn't too noticeable.
| csail |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 15:08 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Also is mine legal as it still has RAFSA under the name!
| PyroJames |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 15:11 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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My old Boat was DW of Kirribilli, London, so both an "of" and a hailing port.
| peterb |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 15:44 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
Also is mine legal as it still has RAFSA under the name!
Certain clubs have the privilege that the club's name (or initials) can be used in place of the port of registry. I believe that RAFSA is one of these. If so, then the club's secretariate should have a letter saying so; ask them.
| PuffTheMagicDragon |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 15:50 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
Brighton is not a recognised port of choice, so "of Brighton" must be part of the ship name.
John
I am not familiar with the details of your laws; however, I do not think that they would be much different from anywhere else.
As far as I know, one cannot include a Port of Registration into a name. For example, I could change the name of my boat from just 'Cyano' to 'Cyano of Malta'; however, I would not be allowed to name her 'Cyano of Valletta', because Valletta is a port of registration. I would expect that your laws, in conformity with International Martitime Conventions, would have a similar provision. I cannot, unfortunately, quote chapter and verse at this time.
| burgundyben |
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(regular ) |
| 19/05/2008 15:58 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I thought that you could use any one of the ports of registry.
IE, my oboat is Playtime II, registered in Southampton, but I could have Playtime II of London on the transom and that would be fine. I recall there is about 100 registered ports?
| Morgana |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 16:01 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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No... I think you can only use the port to which she is registered... which in my case is Falmouth... so i'm OK with that
| RestlessL |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 16:04 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I am not sure about this. A quick search on the mars database shows some 80 vessels called "xyz of Southampton".
It is possible that they are all Part 3 registered, but my understanding is that for Part 1 vessels the only requirement is for vessel names to be unique in the register.
John
| RestlessL |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 16:09 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Although we are all talking about the "Port of Registry", I think all vessels are now registered in Cardiff. The term Port of Registry disappeared with the blue book (I still have mine), and the term "Port of Choice" was brought in. I don't think there is any need for you to have any connection with that port.
John
| PuffTheMagicDragon |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 16:18 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I am afraid I do not know what 'Part 1' or 'Part 3' signify, or what restrictions / privileges they involve. I was referring to the case of a vessel that has a state registration and is permitted to travel outside of territorial waters and to visit other countries.
In our case, that involves my registering the boat as a 'Maltese Vessel', permitted to travel overseas under the Maltese Civil Ensign. Boats that are not so registered are restricted to home waters only; they may call their boat whatever they like. There is no need for the name to be unique as it is not registered 'by name'; it is just given a number that is preceded by letters, depending on whether it is for 'sport', for 'fishing', 'part-time fishing' and so on
| Saltyjohn |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 17:02 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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I agree with you.
Also, the name, lets say 'xyz of Falmouth', doesn't necessarily indicate the port of registry/port of choice/hailing port - it's just the name. Often that ...of Falmouth is added to make the name unique, perhaps there already was a boat called xyz. The port, if it is required to be shown, is always shown separately from, not as an integral part of, the name.
Thus your boat could be called 'xyz of Falmouth' and have a hailing port of Southampton.
| Malaprop |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 17:27 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
one cannot include a Port of Registration into a nameQuote:
Yes you can, possibly killing two birds with one stone.
But as already pointed out, the 'of' will be writ small!
| Emjaytoo |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 17:31 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Quote:
I don't think there is any need for you to have any connection with that port.
Our boat's port of choice for her Part 1 Registration is Folkestone. She has never been there and probably never will.
Folkestone is a drying harbour with a swing bridge that probably doesn't even work - not very suitable for a fixed mast yacht with a fin keel!
So why Folkestone? Because we live there. We could have chosen any one of the designated ports. The boat however resides in The Netherlands.
| wotayottie |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 17:42 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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No - in some cases you dont have to display the port of registry. A club can apply and get exemption.
Some years ago, I suddenly got a letter from the registrar relating to my club and confirming the extension of the exemption I didnt know we had. Since registration was hardly a hot topic round our way, I never bothered to find out precisely what it meant ie did Truant of Southampton drop the Southampton or the Langstone bit underneath, if you see what I mean..
| anteak |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 18:29 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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It is quite simple. If you are STILL Part 1 Registered you either keep the name as shown OR apply for a change (about £35.00). You can download the form online or phone the Registry for one. The Registry will do a search and tell you if your new name has been accepted i.e there are no other vessels with the same name.
If you have no papers to confirm you are Part 1 Regisered have a look around and you should have an Official Number carved into a beam or bulkhead. (O/N 234567) for example.
You could then check with the Registry to see if this number is still extant.
If your Part 1 has expired and you would like to join Part III Registry you can do whatever you want in terms of changing name. You can change it 10 times a week if you wish, providing you fill in the appropriate forms and pay the fee.
As far as I am aware 'Truant of Brighton' merely signifies that, at the time of her first registration, there was already a 'Truant' on the Registry. He could have called her 'Truant of Huddersfield' if he wished. Your Port of Choice has nothing to do with the name so you coud have, on your transom. 'Truant of Brighton' and 'Portsmouth' at the same time for example.
The consensus of opinion in the past seems to have been: Already Part 1 Registered, pay the extra and keep it up. Part 1 expired, forget it and re-register on Part III
| Marsupial |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 21:00 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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The "rules" are easy, for part 1 you need a unique name the port of registry has be displayed on the stern, the port does not have to be part of the name - in fact if it is you would need to mention it twice.
E.g.
Skylark of Brighton
Brighton
SSR identification needs a boat name and the SSR number (in a specific font design and minimum size)
I have seen Dutch French and Belgian customs show "interest" in this stuff.
| Billjratt |
| (regular) |
| 19/05/2008 23:56 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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The "home port" on the registration document (pt 1) can be changed - in my case from Ardrossan to Troon, but the boat is not called Sahona of Troon or Tsunami of pysch or anything of anywhere. These are to differentiate commonly used names like freedom and 'solmine on the register. I have no idea where my boat was originally registered - it doesn't show. It is, I think, a requirement to have the registered home port displayed on the transom, but I don't think it needs to be as "engraved" as the boats name.
| Truant_Now |
| (regular) |
| 20/05/2008 10:24 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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Wow, thanx for all the brilliant replies..
Right, as far as I am aware, she is NOT Part 1 registered, only Part 3 which I personally changed when I became the new owner, so I have an SSR number which is designated to me. This is under "Truant" and is visible on the stern.
A few of you think I have changed the boats name from when I bought her but I havent, its still the same name, Ive just got new stickers to go with the new paint job.
But Many thanx again for all the replies.
It seems to me (If I got all the info correct!
) that I am not Part 1 registered, so I dont need to have the Port of choice on the stern. However the "of Brighton" in the name isnt a port of choice anyway, its just part of the name, so If I wanted to, I could drop it, (if there is no other "Truant" on the Medway (or indeed East coast) or I can change it to "of Gillingham" if need be. Thanx again everyone..
| Bilgediver |
| (regular) |
| 20/05/2008 12:03 |
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Re: Port of Registration and name??
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In theory, a Part 1 registered boat should show the port of registry..... so I guess theoretically, it would be 'Truant of Brighton of Cardiff'!!!!!!!! However, I think this is unlikely, and the registry would disallow it in reality....
***************************************************
Wrong.........Right depending how you read
"Truant of Brighton" is the vessels name and written in one line as such
Port of registry is CArdiff and appears below the name.
It is not normal to just adopt the OF and place it between the name and port of registry .
This is with respect of Pt1 which in this case does not apply.
The port of registry does not have to be the port where you normally tie up... Just look at Cunard,,,, and then some old freighters ie Reardon Smith Line of CArdiff all registered in Bideford which will hardly take a fishing boat and some scottish freighters registered in Burntisland. AlwaYs wondered where that was??
John
Chaka of Birdham
Portsmouth