jamesmar
regular
Reged: 23/10/2004
Posts: 1157
Loc: Me ..west of Scotland..Boat Gr...
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Been looking at buying a boat in the Med..I have a copy of what seems to be the VAT paid certificate..How can I verify that this certificate is 100%kosher? and that there will be no further problems with VAT?
Will th UK Customs and excise be any help??
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12517
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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No good having a copy French will not accept it. Need to ensure that there is an original, but the copy should be sufficient to find out from HMC&E whether the original would be acceptable - but get it in writing!
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"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
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jamesmar
regular
Reged: 23/10/2004
Posts: 1157
Loc: Me ..west of Scotland..Boat Gr...
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Thanks Talbot obviously if I buy the boat,I will get the original certificate,but until then,I only have a copy.I need to verify that the original of this copy is the genuine article and will be acceptable in all the cruising areas which we intend to visit..ie most of the popular Med.countries.Is there a way to have this copy checked out by an official source which would confirm to me that the VAT had been paid as described by the vendor and that I would not get stung for any more in some remote port?
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MichaelE
regular
Reged: 19/08/2004
Posts: 2709
Loc: 17600 Saujon France
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Part of the problem is that even if you have a VAT paid certificate it is possible that the VAT was later refunded and if the officials wanted to be really horrid they could demand proof it was not refunded - impossible of course!
Normally the only time proof is required is in your home port - in all european countries non VAT paid boats may visit without having to pay VAT. The length of time they may stay varies.
I have never been asked for proof of VAT payment when visiting other EU countries other than my own.
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The books
'French Canal Routes to the Mediterranean',
'Living Aboard Around the World', Blue Water Cruising DVDs http://www.michaelbriant.com
along with The Prout Owners Association
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12517
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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IIRC There have been cases in some French Ports. It would appear that they target boats that appear not to have been registered, and demand to see al the papers. SSR of course should have the SSR number on the outside of the hull, but Pt 1 registery uses a plaque inside the hull.
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"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
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jfm
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 9020
Loc: London/Antibes
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I doubt UK C&E will be much help. What country is it? You could just get a local VAT person in that country to review it - if it's france I can suggest a name
Remeber there isn't usually a VAT "certificate". Rahter, there's an invoice (which you may be able to translate and verify fairly easily)
The poster above who said "Part of the problem is that even if you have a VAT paid certificate it is possible that the VAT was later refunded and if the officials wanted to be really horrid they could demand proof it was not refunded" isn't correct. VAT paid means VAT was paid, and VAT paid status is not lost merely because the VAT was later refunded/credited to the person who paid it. So the VAT authorities cannot mess things up for you by alleging that the VAT was later refunded.
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Graememac
new user
Reged: 05/01/2005
Posts: 1
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Hello and happy new year.
I'm in the final process of buying a beautiful and well maintained yacht from a certain well known brokerage in the Chichester area. They are quite knowledgable about her as they sold her to the current owner. They insist that Vat was paid but the documentation lost two owners ago. The boat is very reasonably priced. I could even pay the vat again and she would still be a bargain. I just wince at the thought of the taxman getting his money twice. I have emailed the importers and Will try and contact the orignal owners. I have old bills of sale one of which is printed by HMS customs. Does anyone one else have any ideas of how I might prove payment?
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duncan
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 8920
Loc: Home mid Kent - Boat @ Poole
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still find this a conundrum - with the advent of computerised invoices it would be impossible to prove a printed origional or a copy!
I have taken the step of laminating mine with the words " Original invoice confirming VAT paid" in French, German, Dutch and Spanish on the back.......
Overkill!
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my boat for sale
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birdseye
regular
Reged: 09/03/2003
Posts: 3557
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jfm is quite wrong. the original problem in rel;ation to UK boats came about because it was possible to reclaim vat on export. so lots of brits and more than a few french did exactly that and had many happy years sailing vat free. the significance of the "original vat receipt" in the UK case was that you had to surrender the doc when you reclaimed the vat. so the original doc proved that vat had been paid and not re-claimed.
Boats built before a certain date and in the EC on another date are deemed vat paid without the need for docs, and boats built after a certain date were not able to have their vat re-claimed so easily and so are in a much better position. There is a C&E leaflet that gives the relevant dates and much more precise detail. Thats the place to start asking.
the system is the rest of the EC is not the same. some countries registration system confirms both ownership and vat status. our ssr does neither.
the problem you have (along with the rest of us) is that there is no single authority who's writ runs EC wide. So even if you could get the UK customes to say OK (and they wouldnt dream of doing anything so positive and helpful in my experience) that will not carry much weight with your average douanier.
suggest you do a forum search on the subject but get some tea and sandwiches first!
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this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
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aidancoughlan
regular
Reged: 24/06/2002
Posts: 455
Loc: co.Wicklow, Ireland
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I had a similar question when I looked into buying a dutch boat a while ago which had no proof of VAT payment. I got directly in touch with the Irish customs & spoke several times to the (one!) officer that deals with all yacht VAT issues at Irish C&E. He asked that if I proceeded I should furnish him with whatever paper information was available (the 'proof' didnt necessarily have to be an original VAT certificate) and based on that his review he would issue a "VAT certificate". I dont recall the exact process of what he needed to see, but his words were that he just needed to satisfy himself that the boat was VAT paid (it seemed likely in my case, but not proved)
... anyway, two things I wanted to pass on were (a) a certain level of discretion was implied - this may or not be the case with UK C&E, and (b) he assured me (several times!) that a "VAT certificate" issued by ANY EU country now would ensure that the boat would not be subject to VAT at any other EU country in the future - ie. it seems to me they do have some sort of arrangement to honour each VAT certificates issued by any member countries C&E.
I didnt buy the boat in end for a different reason, but the Bottom line - I'd suggest talk to your own C&E and ***make sure you persist until you get to someone who actually deals with yacht VAT issues *** - I got the run around until I got to the chap who actually makes the decisions. Best of luck !
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