wagenaar
regular
Reged: 25/02/2003
Posts: 258
Loc: Spain, Galicia
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A lot has been written about the need to register your boat in Spain after having spend more than half a year in that country. I am living in Spain now for almost twelve years, am an official resident with the necessary papers and am considering buying a ship, but it is unlikely that I manage to find the ship I want in Spain. That means I have to import it into Spain and fear that I have to register it there. To do so would require a kind of survey to establish the "floatability" unless it would have a "CE-mark". One of the ships I am looking at is at the moment registered in Portugal and has the official papers of that country for coastal cruising. The spanish authorities indicated that they would not accept this and would require their own survey. So much for the european unity!! All this is mainly, in my eyes unnecessary, bureaucracy, but there is also an emotional angle to it all. The fact that the ship would be registered in Spain, means that I can not fly my own national flag (in this case the dutch flag). I wonder how the situation is in other countries. From these forums it would seem that quite a lot of britishers have their ship in Normandy and Brittany. Does the french gouverment require that these ships are officially registered in France? I know that many belgians have their boats in the southern part of the Netherlands. I don't recall that the dutch gouverment requires them to register their boats in that country. As a matter of fact their is no registration required in the Netherlands. I wonder if it is acceptable under the EU-rules that a gouverment of an EU-country obliges a citizen of an other EU-country to register his ship in that country if it has been there for more than a certain period. Can they oblige me to fly a flag which I don't want to fly, because I live in that country, but do not have its nationality. From a foregoing thread initiated by GREHAN, it is evident that at the moment the spanish authorities are checking up on the live-aboards in the marinas in S-Spain and that some seem to be required to pay large fees for all the years they wre obliged, but did not register their ships in Spain. I feel that this problem should be looked into from a more fundamental point: Can the gouverment of a EU-country oblige the citizens of an other EU-country to register their boats in that country.
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12364
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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Agree that this appears to be totally against the spirit of the EU, but thats not exactly unusual. The only way this will be stopped is by a court case to the EC
-------------------- "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
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RichardPerou
regular
Reged: 06/03/2002
Posts: 136
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If you are a resident of Francce and you keep a boat in France then you are required to pay the same taxes as a French registered boat. The registration of the boat is not affected. This seems fair to me.
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MichaelE
regular
Reged: 19/08/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: La Rochelle France 17000
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Quote:
From these forums it would seem that quite a lot of britishers have their ship in Normandy and Brittany. Does the french gouverment require that these ships are officially registered in France?
If you are resident in France you have to pay the same taxes as a French citizen even if you continue to fly - be registered in the UK. You also used to have to have a survey if no other boat of your type was already registered. The survey however was paid for by the French government except the hauling of the boat. The last bit changed last January and now the survey merely requires you to have paperwork supporting the LOA, Beam and engine power, The paper you end up with is very slightly different from that of a French resident but cost the same. The paper entitles you to keep the boat in France but to conform to UK safety and security rules..
I think in Spain you may continue to fly your national flag but as a resident you need to have the survey, pay the same as a Spanish Citizen and differently from France conform to all Spanish safety regulations...
Michael
-------------------- The books
'French Canal Routes to the Mediterranean',
'Living Aboard Around the World', Blue Water Cruising DVDs and a Prout 33cs For Sale.
http://www.michaelbriant.com
along with The Prout Owners Association
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Sybarite
regular
Reged: 07/12/2002
Posts: 3262
Loc: France
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I am British resident in France with a boat registered in France. I have a "passeport" as opposed to an "Acte de Francisation" which means that I pay the same taxes as an French person.
As a resident non-French person I am not allowed to have an "acte de francisation" and therefore I was not allowed to wear the French flag. There now appears to reign a certain confusion in this area. I have been warned several times during custom's checks that I should have a French flag but on checking with Customs' representatives at the Salon Nautique they confirm that my continuing to wear the Red Ensign is correct.
Some custom's men then said that I should be registered in the UK. I said that no way was I going to register in two countries. They never followed up.
John. FWIW
-------------------- Sybaris, my Feeling 920 is for sale at bargain price; send pm with email address for information.
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MichaelE
regular
Reged: 19/08/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: La Rochelle France 17000
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John hi,,
I sail in exactly the same murky waters as you! Quote:
As a resident non-French person I am not allowed to have an "acte de francisation" and therefore I was not allowed to wear the French flag.
Now my local office says I can have an 'Acte de francisation' in a blink. Zero problem but naturally whilst I am OK with paying the tax I really do not want to get involved with their 'safety requirements' so have stayed with the passport bateaux and hung onto my UK registration...
Michael
-------------------- The books
'French Canal Routes to the Mediterranean',
'Living Aboard Around the World', Blue Water Cruising DVDs and a Prout 33cs For Sale.
http://www.michaelbriant.com
along with The Prout Owners Association
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wagenaar
regular
Reged: 25/02/2003
Posts: 258
Loc: Spain, Galicia
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I fully agree with you. There is no reason why a foreigner should pay a different tax than a local. I object to two things 1. That the spanish authorities require their own check-up while a ship is properly registered in an other EU-country. 2. That I would be obliged to fly a spanish flag, although I am not spanish.
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Sybarite
regular
Reged: 07/12/2002
Posts: 3262
Loc: France
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..... "I really do not want to get involved with their 'safety requirements'.."
That's my thinking too and it's why a lot of people reregistered in Belgium.
A few years ago I wanted to charter the boat out but the charterers would not handle it without a certificate from the "Affaires Maritimes". The AF refused to give the cert because of the flag but said that the corrollary was I had no obligation to comply with their safety requirements. (I did anyway).
John
PS With respect to the VHF neither the UK nor the French wanted to take responsibility and so I have been without a licence since 1990.
-------------------- Sybaris, my Feeling 920 is for sale at bargain price; send pm with email address for information.
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MichaelE
regular
Reged: 19/08/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: La Rochelle France 17000
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in all my encounters over ....... years I have never never been asked for a VHF licence or operators licence and the same with SSB licence or operators ... I think I have been rummaged or boarded 20 plus times by both UK, French, Spanish and American authorities... Makes you think what all the licence fuss is about!
Michael
-------------------- The books
'French Canal Routes to the Mediterranean',
'Living Aboard Around the World', Blue Water Cruising DVDs and a Prout 33cs For Sale.
http://www.michaelbriant.com
along with The Prout Owners Association
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