AdeOlly
regular
Reged: 19/12/2004
Posts: 661
Loc: Hayling Island
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Interesting that it seems HMRC think they can charge different rate of duty on red depending on the status of the end user which is contrary to earlier indications from them. If this is actually so and they're not just going through the motions before saying "sorry guys the EU won't allow this, so it's white for all you leisure users" then there must be hope that the minimum rate of duty will be applied to red for leisure use.
If option A were adopted, I wonder if VAT would be charged at 5% as now on red, or 17.5% as it is on white.
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Adrian
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jrb1978
regular
Reged: 04/04/2005
Posts: 7821
Loc: ality Unknown
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VAT can be charged at whatever the chancellor feels like, subject to UK law
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Recent Raymarine Electronics for sale:
Raymarine C80 Plotter
Raymarine Raystar GPS Antenna
Raymarine S1 Autopilot Core Pack
Raymarine 240E Modular DSC VHF
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AdeOlly
regular
Reged: 19/12/2004
Posts: 661
Loc: Hayling Island
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Sure, but would it be feasible/lawful to charge 5% on commercial red but 17.5% on leisure red? I can't think of anything where a different rate of VAT is charged on the same product depending on the end user??
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Adrian
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StewartC
MBM Assistant Editor
Reged: 14/12/2005
Posts: 121
Loc: London
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This is a tricky one. Some red diesel sold around the country is ULSD, but most isn't.
Currently, there are no non-commercial uses of non-ULSD. In other words, when we officially lose the derogation in November next year, boaters will be the only people in the country paying the full rate of duty for non-ULSD, as all the other applications in which it is used are rebatable.
You'd be right to think this was grossly unfair. But, it is extremely doubtful that the Government will apply only the EU minimum of duty on non-ULSD, as it fears this will lead to massive fraud on the part of road diesel users.
HMRC says it is also worried about the "environmental signals" lowering non-ULSD duty to the EU minimum would send. And it wouldn't tie in with plans to make all diesel completely sulphur free.
Another argument is that in remote areas that rely on boater dollars, the red diesel used is more often than not just ULSD marked red. So if non-ULSD duty was lowered, then these areas would become uncompetitive.
What it all adds up to is a massive can of worms, and a Government that is not going to give preferential treatment to boaters, even after all its claims that it wholeheartedly supported the marine industry.
So for all this and more, option A is the only realistic one open to us. It will save boaters from cleaning their tanks of red diesel, and it will keep fuel vendors in business.
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Clifford_Pope
regular
Reged: 28/10/2005
Posts: 788
Loc: Pembrokeshire
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Quote:
Sure, but would it be feasible/lawful to charge 5% on commercial red but 17.5% on leisure red? I can't think of anything where a different rate of VAT is charged on the same product depending on the end user??
Registered charities get certain products VAT-free.
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Gandy
regular
Reged: 24/08/2004
Posts: 2362
Loc: Aberdeenshire (quite far from ...
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Quote:
You'd be right to think this was grossly unfair. But, it is extremely doubtful that the Government will apply only the EU minimum of duty on non-ULSD, as it fears this will lead to massive fraud on the part of road diesel users.
As long as its marked Red they still have the same protection against fraudulent use in road vehicles.
There may be some EU thing stopping them charging lower duty on high-sulphur Diesel.
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Tony S
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AdeOlly
regular
Reged: 19/12/2004
Posts: 661
Loc: Hayling Island
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Can't see how leisure red with EU minimum duty can be worse from a fraud or 'environmental' point of view than the current position, where from what you say there is some ULSD being sold with red dye added at the current low rate of red duty, which HMRC were apparently 'happy' to see continue had derogation renewal been granted.
Any clues on the VAT position if option A were adopted? This could make a 10ppl difference if full duty were applied to leisure red. I still don't see how a product can be rated differently (with non-zero rates) depending on the end user.
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Adrian
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Mouner
new user
Reged: 24/08/2007
Posts: 7
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+Having read all the rubbish
Isn't time the RYA and the BMF organized a
mass protest or are the RYA only interested in people that
sale in the Poole area.
I favour option 3 the commercial operatores can and do
claim back all the costs of fuel on thier tax returns
it therefor would not be of anyhadship to them
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jcmmarine
regular
Reged: 07/05/2006
Posts: 664
Loc: Gosport/Europe
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EU Haronisation.
Can we please have
Diesel at Dutch prices
Wine at French prices.
Beer at belgium prices.
Boats at italian prices
Etc.
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John
Sailing is for fun, Engines are for going places.
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adrianm
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 526
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Please not Dutch prices!
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