bumblefish
regular
Reged: 22/12/2002
Posts: 1268
Loc: arilloo fantatstico
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I just read N Hill Azores account and was wondering if there was any information on the reliability of self steering gear? I am looking at buying either a Navik or a Sea Feather for my ELizabethan 30. Also if I was to attempt some basic repair work that involved drilling would I be best with a hand bit or is there a reliable battery powered or 12V chargeable electric drill around?
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La simplicité est la base de toute bonne conception!
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tomato
regular
Reged: 06/11/2007
Posts: 47
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Yes but. Is that lady trying to blow up the other ladies life jacket on your symbol. Can't make it out. God knows I've tried. Its just not big enough ! ! (The bloody photo) !
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cnh
regular
Reged: 18/10/2003
Posts: 282
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To be fair, if I was a little more competent at 'DIY', I could have fixed the Navik at sea. Same with the disconnection problem. On the whole, it worked very well.
A good alternative seems to be the German Windpilot, which I had on a Trapper 500. Trouble was that the helm movement needed on the Trapper was rather more than the Windpilot could easily provide.
Nicholas Hill
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Channel & Baltic Guide
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Glayva
regular
Reged: 16/12/2003
Posts: 201
Loc: Buckinghamshire
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I've got the windpilot. And I must say it is built like a masonry outhouse. I was knocked down twice last year in big seas. The only thing that hit the water and remained undamaged was the windpilot. She was knocked off course unfortunately and at first I thought she was not working when I came back up as the boat was wallowing as opposed to sailing at 135 degrees to the wind under bare poles. However I adjusted her back on course and off we went again. I personally believe my windpilot is indestructible [so far]. If you follow the instructions closely I find she moves the tiller quite sufficiently for nearly all situations. Of course in light airs there is rarely enough water flow to push teh pendulum up far enough to steer properly and she does cause the boat to waver over the sea a bit. But I'm not sure this is unique to the windpilot. As long as I can get the boat up to 2 knots water speed she seems to be ok. Major downside is the fact that there is no remote adjustment and you have to go back to the machine itself to make a course adjustment. [Roger Taylor has invented a device that he had retrofitted to his windpilot - he has a picture somewhere, I'm not sure if it is this forum or the Jester Yahoo forum]. I've thought about it but I'm just as happy to make the trip to the back of the cockpit to adjust it as long as I always clip on. Gives me something to do.
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"Those who would go to sea for pleasure would visit hell as a pastime."
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Glayva
regular
Reged: 16/12/2003
Posts: 201
Loc: Buckinghamshire
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Here is a free book that compares a lot of different self steering systems written by Peter Forthmann who is the manufacturer of Windpilots. He is biased but he makes a very good argument for his system in the book. The free book is available here:
http://www.windpilot.de/Grafiken/pdf/bookeng.pdf
Careful pressing the link as it actually downloads the free book.
Peter Forthmann's website is here:
http://www.windpilot.de/
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"Those who would go to sea for pleasure would visit hell as a pastime."
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sterenn
regular
Reged: 15/03/2007
Posts: 180
Loc: Paris France
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Bonjour
Andromeda has or had a Navik that failed during the last JC.
It had sailed four North Atlantic crossing before. The supper before the start Sherman explained me how stupid Plastimo was not to have been able to provide him a new on on time! A real novel.
It may be considered as a reliabilty test and a bad custumer service test.
Navik has been very much used on small single handed boat in France (mini's size).
The Navik has a very clever, paterned, concept : a fletner linked to the wind vane.
Plastimo doesn't seem very interested in the Navik (too small a market).
I don't have any fiability comparison and the Navik is a rather old concept.
Eric
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Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire complique ?
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srp
regular
Reged: 10/05/2006
Posts: 1103
Loc: IoW
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Quote:
Roger Taylor has invented a device that he had retrofitted to his windpilot - he has a picture somewhere, I'm not sure if it is this forum or the Jester Yahoo forum
There are a couple of pictures on here . There may also be some on his own site (link on the Corribee website, right hand side of the page).
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www.corribee.org
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Jake_K
PBO features editor
Reged: 20/07/2001
Posts: 186
Loc: Poole, Dorset UK
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Hi Bumblefish
I did a big feature on the fitting and use of both of those windvanes in PBO, July 2006 pages 65-70.
David Rainsbury had used the Navik for several thousand miles around the UK, and fitted it himself to his Contessa 26. A fair bit of tweaking required for it to fit. He loved using it, but - as the article highlights - it has it short comings, and build quality and spares availability/cost was a main bug-bear.
I watched the Seafeather being fitted to a 34ft wooden sloop, with a raked transom - and the whole thing went very smoothly. I have tried the Seafeather on a junk-rin Kingfisher 22 in a force 3-4, and on this 34-footer in barely a 1-2.
The Sea feather is lovingly custom-built by one-man-band Paul Dolton in Devon, and he makes a real craft of it. It was particularly sensitive on a down-wind run with virtually no breeze over the vane - the point of sailing when most of them lose the plot.
Paul can make the Seafeather to exactly fit your boat, but you'll need to chop the off-the-shelf Navik around. He'll also fit it for you for a couple of hundred extra, which includes his mileage and a test sail to teach you how to get the best from it.
I'm afraid I can't profess to knowing how they work at sea in terms of reliability - I do know that the Seafeather is more robust, and has more built-in safety features ( remote tripping blade, companionway adjustment, variable blades etc) but is more expensive. The Navik is cheaper by several hundred, and very popular, but lacks some refinement.
As for drilling the hull, the job was done with a standard cordless drill, with a wrist band to stop it taking a dive. The whole sequence is in that issue.
If I had the money, I would fit a Seafeather tomorrow. Instead, I'm relying on a QEM bought from a boat jumble for £35. Suspect I may live to regret being a cheapskate...
Cheers
Jake
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bumblefish
regular
Reged: 22/12/2002
Posts: 1268
Loc: arilloo fantatstico
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Good evening Jake, I read that article, not subscription but local newsagent delivery, I try to buy locally, then British and then European. I apply this to all off my 'shopping'. I like the idea of a 'one man band' with an interest in developing and enhancing a product for a fairly small market. The Sea Feather has been fitted to a few Elizabethans including at least one E30 and I will be probably asking for a quote shortly. Just as soon as the skiing holidays run out! 
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La simplicité est la base de toute bonne conception!
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2nd_apprentice
regular
Reged: 18/03/2007
Posts: 179
Loc: Hull
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This is quite an interesting question. Personally I'm not sure what to do. A while ago I aquired an old Atoms which seems to be a well designed product (I'm sure Eric could comment on it). It's based on the servo pendulum principle and used to be very popular with french sailors. Unfortunately production ended in the early nineties and my kit needs a rebuild. I guess it could be done using off the shelf parts like carburettor linkages etc.
The nice thing about the Atoms is that it's very lightweight and comes with a remote control line wich uses a worm gear on the vane section.
What got me thinking however is that my Benford 30 has a transom hung rudder which would easily lend itself to a trim tab.
Since these can be very effective when correctly designed and since my Atoms is in need of a rebuild anyway I'm playing with the idea of converting it to a trim tab. Instead of driving an auxiliary rudder and running lines to the tiller the windvane would directly work on the trim tab.
Peter Foehrman criticises the trim tab design of now being quite dated and outmoded by far superior products like his current Windpilot but to be honest that sounds like good marketing.
Comments appreciated!
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