scruff
new user
Reged: 02/03/2007
Posts: 8
Loc: Firth of Forth
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I there,
Fairly new to this forum and am interested indoing a transat in 2010 - finance providing.
I have been looking / still am for the right boat for doing it in, currently swaying towards the Achilles 24 (provided I can find a tripple keel one!!)
One concern I have about the transat, amongst many others that I'm sure will be resolved before letting go of the mooring rope, is that how much fresh water would you ned for the crossing?
I'm off the thinking that would require a ration of around 5litres per person per day (planning single handed) so that makes 40days x 5 litres = 200 litres + backup. That seems to be an awfull lot of weight to add to a 24 foot boat before you start addingin all your food, exra equipment etc.
Are you thinking of using a water-maker on your crossings or what provisons have you made for this.
I would hate to be in the dryest crossing of the atlantic and to drink my last drop of water - could be mildly disheartening to say the least!!
anyway, great wee gem this forum, glad I found it!!
Regards,
Scruff
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gwylan
regular
Reged: 31/05/2007
Posts: 273
Loc: Portishead, on tour
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Achilles would be a good choice! Lots for sale along the Bristol Channel Coast. in varying states of repair and maintenance. good luck
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CentaurPipedream
regular
Reged: 20/09/2006
Posts: 1204
Loc: Essex
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5l per day seems a lot. Im working on 3 per day for the Azores challenge in May for drinking. Everything else uses salt water.
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Life is just far too short.
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KBT
regular
Reged: 22/01/2007
Posts: 1538
Loc: France
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Quote:
5l per day seems a lot. Im working on 3 per day for the Azores challenge in May for drinking. Everything else uses salt water.
I agree 3l/day would be heaps, if it,s split up and from different sources probably better. I took bottled water for the backup supply. Probably used 50-60l on a 32day s/h passage. Mind I had a beer supply too!, Bill.
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sterenn
regular
Reged: 15/03/2007
Posts: 194
Loc: Paris France
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Bonjour
I confirm that 3l a day is a good value but I would take an extra 50% spear plus 20 litres as a rescue reserve.
As I don't have any water tanks, the water is in bottles.
Caution : for the return the 1 gallon US bottles are not waterproff so I transferred the US water into European empty bottles.
200 l, in weight, is less than two crew members and empty bottles provide extra flotability reserves! 
Eric
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Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire complique ?
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Jake_K
PBO features editor
Reged: 20/07/2001
Posts: 186
Loc: Poole, Dorset UK
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Hi Scruff
Welcome to the forum! I agree with Eric that the empty water bottles make good reserve buoyancy. In fact, I have designed my entire water stowage system around that principle, with each empty fitting back into a sealable locker. Bottles also mean you can move the full ones around to help with trim.
Other comments about using saltwater hold good - as you know many yachts have a saltwater pump in the galley. According to a well-known designer, when it comes to weight, the minimum you should allow for (water, food and other consumables) is around 10lbs ( 4.5kg) per person, per day. (This is why micro-yachts struggle with long range trips.)
The crew of Lively Lady (currently circumnavigating) have been using personalised bottles for their water, even though they have a tank, so they can keep a track of how much each person is actually drinking, especially in the hotter climes. (I think they have to get through at least 1 litre bottle each per day - in addition to tea, soup etc).
One boat I know of sailed from New Zealand to Alaska, non-stop, and kept the tanks topped off by catching rain! Personally, I'm going to go with the old addage of a gallon (4.45lt) per day, per crewman, which builds in Erics safety margin. Thankfully, after a slow start, the boat will get lighter by 11lbs every day!
Talking of weight, if the volume of water that would fill the average fridge freezer weighs about a ton, it makes sense to fill in as much of the cockpit as possible....
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CentaurPipedream
regular
Reged: 20/09/2006
Posts: 1204
Loc: Essex
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............ and a thought I had just last night is to mark each bottle with consecutive dates so you know at a glance if you are ahead/behind on consumption. this does mean however you have to use the bottles in a certain order which makes moving them around for trim purposes a little troublesome. Well, you have to have something to do ................
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Life is just far too short.
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 424
Loc: North Devon
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Hi Scruff,
Excellent choice the Achilles 24. well I hope it is as I have just bought one from Pembroke. It would be great to have another Achilles in JC 2010. Proper racing. Good luck with the search. By the way, did I see you on the Achilles 24 Flicr site?
Cheers,
Nicki
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nickrj
regular
Reged: 21/07/2006
Posts: 381
Loc: Long Island, New York
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5ltrs is way too high an estimate. I would actually go closer to 2ltrs per day. On my ten days from Lisbon, I actually used less, under or around 1ltr/day. For my Atlantic crossing, I intend on taking 130litres of drinking wanter in 1.5ltr bottles, spread around the boat, with 40ltrs of non-drinking water for washing up, and rinsing after salt showers lashed to the deck.
I truly believe I will end up on the other side with way too much water, but of course, emergencies have to be accounted for.
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My Blog, singlehanded from Europe to Australia http://www.bigoceans.com
the new Boating Mobile Social Network http://www.bluemapia.com
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 424
Loc: North Devon
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Why not just make it all drinking water?
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nickrj
regular
Reged: 21/07/2006
Posts: 381
Loc: Long Island, New York
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Well, I could, but the lashed tanks were going to be filled from tap water, and Canarian tap water is de-salinated, and while probably drinkable, isn't something you'd want to drink if you had the choice!
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My Blog, singlehanded from Europe to Australia http://www.bigoceans.com
the new Boating Mobile Social Network http://www.bluemapia.com
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KBT
regular
Reged: 22/01/2007
Posts: 1538
Loc: France
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Quote:
Well, I could, but the lashed tanks were going to be filled from tap water, and Canarian tap water is de-salinated, and while probably drinkable, isn't something you'd want to drink if you had the choice!
We filled up in Gomera Nick, good water! On our then, 44ftr we carried a tonne of f.w., I estimated later, we had used about 30gallons on a 30 day passage, two people, and herself washing her hair at least once a week! we lugged a tonne of H2O all the way accross, nuts! Hope all is going Well. Bill.
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SAE140
regular
Reged: 18/01/2005
Posts: 136
Loc: Boston, UK
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Quote:
............ and a thought I had just last night is to mark each bottle with consecutive dates so you know at a glance if you are ahead/behind on consumption. this does mean however you have to use the bottles in a certain order which makes moving them around for trim purposes a little troublesome. Well, you have to have something to do ................
That sounds a bit complex, especially as you're bound to get 'brain-dead tired' from time to time.
Suggest simply keeping a log of the total number of 'working' bottles used (keep the reserve separate), by simply taking each new bottle from the opposite side from the last, and entering such details religiously in the log to keep an overall track of useage.
An alternative method might be to keep a 'tally' system, with an inch or so of plastic tape (1 of 2 colours - port and s/board ?) secured to each bottle neck. Remove these on opening and stick 'em on a bulkhead or somewhere equally obvious to keep a running display.
If conditions allow over the next couple of months, it might be a useful exercise to simulate ashore a period of water restraint: logging each and every drink taken, and the amount used for cooking (obviously ignoring the amount whenever salt water could be used) ... And - when using a bottled water supply - there'll be no taps left running when cleaning your teeth ! Simulating a reduced schedule of personal hygiene might pose something of a challenge though - and get you some strange looks from neighbours or work-mates ....
Colin
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scruff
new user
Reged: 02/03/2007
Posts: 8
Loc: Firth of Forth
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Thanks for all your input, one little niggle has been put to bed at least.
I have seen the Achilles’ for sale in the Bristol, well on the web at any rate but am based on the east coast Scotland so quite a trip to view some potentially neglected, un-economic boats! Even at that, the cost of bringing them back up north would be quite high, and I wouldn’t fancy putting to sea on a trip of that magnitude on a boat that has just been purchased - would like to know the characteristics of the boat first!!
I have signed up to the Achilles flicker sight, although I must confess to be a time to time lurker - its good and reassuring to know that there is an active pseudo owners "association" with the related mines of information.
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 424
Loc: North Devon
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Yea, fair point. Makes OK tea though. Well the Fuerteventura stuff does, I don't know about other islands.
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gwylan
regular
Reged: 31/05/2007
Posts: 273
Loc: Portishead, on tour
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Re Choice of Achilles 24 - make sure you get the Mk2 - raised step from cockpit to companionway - keeps a lot of water out and makes the whole thing safer.
Also check the shroud plates thoroughly and expect to replace them and reinforce that area.
Can p.m. you an email address for a guy who did a transat with an Achilles [ nutter, but there you are]
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 424
Loc: North Devon
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Hi Thanks. PM sent.
Nicki
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Lee_Shaw
regular
Reged: 01/06/2004
Posts: 539
Loc: Staffordshire
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Putting water in a spray bottle (like those ones for spraying plants) and using that to wash with makes quite a small amount go quite a long way. It's also quite pleasant to wash the face with.
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SAE140
regular
Reged: 18/01/2005
Posts: 136
Loc: Boston, UK
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Quote:
Putting water in a spray bottle (like those ones for spraying plants) and using that to wash with makes quite a small amount go quite a long way. It's also quite pleasant to wash the face with.
Good idea - I've been a '2 flannel' man until now - one for the face, another for the groin and armpits. Think I'll give the spray a try. Colin
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Noddy
regular
Reged: 22/06/2005
Posts: 336
Loc: Thames Estuary
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Quote:
Good idea - I've been a '2 flannel' man until now - one for the face, another for the groin and armpits. Think I'll give the spray a try. Colin
Thank you for that Colin.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the obedience of fools.
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CentaurPipedream
regular
Reged: 20/09/2006
Posts: 1204
Loc: Essex
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Yes, most enlightening 
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Life is just far too short.
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SAE140
regular
Reged: 18/01/2005
Posts: 136
Loc: Boston, UK
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Well, sorry if that's too much information - simply a hangover from my military days when we marked one corner of a towel and used that as a 'working' flannel when operating in the field.
So what plans do others have for maintaining personal hygiene during their month afloat - or is this a subject best not talked about ? If so, I do hope you guys will be staying down-wind of me !!
Colin
BTW - I've heard people talk about using half-gallon pump-up plastic weedkiller sprays to get an economical shower, but I've never tried it. Could be ok to use in the cockpit on a nice warm day perhaps (?). But - another bit of gear to find a home for ...
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Noddy
regular
Reged: 22/06/2005
Posts: 336
Loc: Thames Estuary
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Yes, this is an important subject.
I usually rely on tobogganing down a soft grassy hill with my back legs in the air to get really clean.
Thinking of installing one on the boat - but what sort of soil??
From a previous post; I think Eric sports his odour with pride.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the obedience of fools.
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SwedishLass
regular
Reged: 20/10/2003
Posts: 236
Loc: Essex UK
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Worrying to have a set of back legs to point skywards. Most are equipped with a regular set and thats enough. Mind you it would take a lot more imbibing to become legless.
To bring back on thread 3 litres a day.
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Grahame
Fairey Atalanta A65 Joann (for sale)
http:/www.wivenhoesailing.org.uk/joann.pdf
Time is precious, sailing time is priceless.
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 424
Loc: North Devon
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Baby wipes. Great things. Even remove oil.
Nicki
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Lee_Shaw
regular
Reged: 01/06/2004
Posts: 539
Loc: Staffordshire
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Quote:
Well, sorry if that's too much information - simply a hangover from my military days when we marked one corner of a towel and used that as a 'working' flannel when operating in the field.
So what plans do others have for maintaining personal hygiene during their month afloat - or is this a subject best not talked about ? If so, I do hope you guys will be staying down-wind of me !!
Colin
BTW - I've heard people talk about using half-gallon pump-up plastic weedkiller sprays to get an economical shower, but I've never tried it. Could be ok to use in the cockpit on a nice warm day perhaps (?). But - another bit of gear to find a home for ...
I plan to wash once a week whether I need it or not.
Seriously though, the spray bottle works fine for me, a puny, half-boiled, mug full of warm water in there and I'm as clean as a whistle, soaped and rinsed, front back and sides. I feel so much better for it and it doesn't use up much water so I can "shower" regularly.
I also use the spray to rinse dishes, clean pesky salt off boat things, like piston hanks and blocks, and my beloved fishing reel.
I plan to allow 3litres of water per day with the safety factor built in by allowing for more days.
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SAE140
regular
Reged: 18/01/2005
Posts: 136
Loc: Boston, UK
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Quote:
Yes, this is an important subject.
I usually rely on tobogganing down a soft grassy hill with my back legs in the air to get really clean.
I don't know what dragging your arse along the ground has got to do with the issue of personal hygiene. 
My focus is on the prevention of both salt-sores, and the prevention of the spread and incubation of fungal spores which cause dhobi-itch (aka ringworm, athlete's foot, tinea), which readily thrive in moist, poorly ventilated spaces such as those I've already mentioned. Washing and *drying* these bodily areas adequately is the key. Likewise around your toes. Not a very glamorous subject, I'd be the first to agree, but in my view an important consideration if living with water restrictions for a protracted period of time, with perhaps few changes of clothes.
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SAE140
regular
Reged: 18/01/2005
Posts: 136
Loc: Boston, UK
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Quote:
Seriously though, the spray bottle works fine for me, a puny, half-boiled, mug full of warm water in there and I'm as clean as a whistle, soaped and rinsed, front back and sides. I feel so much better for it and it doesn't use up much water so I can "shower" regularly.
I also use the spray to rinse dishes, clean pesky salt off boat things, like piston hanks and blocks, and my beloved fishing reel.
I think this is one of the best ideas I've come across on this forum - one that's well worth trying ... thanks
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Noddy
regular
Reged: 22/06/2005
Posts: 336
Loc: Thames Estuary
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Quote:
I don't know what dragging your arse along the ground has got to do with the issue of personal hygiene.
Here is a dog demonstrating the technique. (note the soft grass)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04crLcXveIY
Quote:
My focus is on the prevention of both salt-sores, and the prevention of the spread and incubation of fungal spores which cause dhobi-itch (aka ringworm, athlete's foot, tinea), which readily thrive in moist, poorly ventilated spaces such as those I've already mentioned. Washing and *drying* these bodily areas adequately is the key. Likewise around your toes. Not a very glamorous subject, I'd be the first to agree, but in my view an important consideration if living with water restrictions for a protracted period of time, with perhaps few changes of clothes.
I'm mostly worried about worms.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the obedience of fools.
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