tangomoon
regular
Reged: 18/10/2004
Posts: 1726
Loc: SW
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Have posted this here in case any one doesn't go on other forums anyway this is my main forum!
We thought we'd join the RYA and explore the fantastic world of discounts, of their prices, advice, free International Certificate of Competence - OOhHH we thought! - What do we need to get that - ring them up - Day skipper not good enough - Yachtmaster theory not good enough - Power boat level 2 - Yes, but only for a power boat up to 10 metres - we have a yacht would it do for that? - NO - you need Yachtmaster practical - £3/400 ish for automatic qualification to ICC.
As an aside - wife thought she'd like to teach theory to youngsters say up to 18 about seamanship or to Day Skipper standard - for free except for cost of books - can't expect the RYA to supply them for nothing - fair enough - What do you need to qualify as teacher for Day Skipper theory? - Yachtmaster Practical - £3/400 ish quids - so much for our wish to help youngsters get going. It isn't even the money - she doesn't want to take the Yachtmaster Practical not that she can't she does all the navigation, sails up/down/trim/logbook/weather/helps teach Yachtmaster theory to adults has done Physics, Pure Maths, Applied Maths. So we're talking one of the sharpest tools in the box here.
The conflicting advice and statements from that organisation don't help matters either. Any thoughts to get through the shambles we all know or shouldwe just leave the kids on the streets to do enough mischief until they get an ASBO/ Caution/added to the increasing list of disaffected.
RYA as PBO mentioned has been short of teachers in the past and -well we don't care about that - they do have a monopoly though and its a lovely money making one that is affecting us all. Well that's the blue touch paper lit.
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Damo
regular
Reged: 22/02/2005
Posts: 2843
Loc: k keeper,Portishead
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I think everyone is too scared to answer you, after the performances next door 
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Never be at a loose end with the Yosemite bowline 
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wotayottie
regular
Reged: 01/07/2007
Posts: 1892
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The ICC isnt an RYA piece of paper for them to set the standard as they wish. Its an IMO document and the test has to be to a standard acceptable to overseas jurisdictions . Thats the Day skipper level (note - not the shorevased course but the proper day skipper ticket). Not surprising really since the alternative exam includes practical boat handling which cant be done on a shorbased course.
At one time the ICC was dished out by club commadores on the "he's a jolly sound chap "basis, and not surprisingly the foreiners across the channel refused to accept it. Interestingly, the Germans are already muttering about the SRC licence course we do - apparently they take three days to teach you to operate a marine VHF radio!
As for instructing kids, do you think teachers in schools should be well qualified and checked by exams? Why not teachers of sailing kids? And its hardly as if you are talking of lots of money and a difficult test.
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tangomoon
regular
Reged: 18/10/2004
Posts: 1726
Loc: SW
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 I do love a bun fight. Forum has deteriorated badly in two years though. Not here though.
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Damo
regular
Reged: 22/02/2005
Posts: 2843
Loc: k keeper,Portishead
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Do that here and you will be forced to go to the naughty-mooring, and have your burgee confiscated for a lunar month 
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Never be at a loose end with the Yosemite bowline
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tangomoon
regular
Reged: 18/10/2004
Posts: 1726
Loc: SW
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Exactly
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johnchampion
regular
Reged: 28/03/2005
Posts: 73
Loc: Bristol UK
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Assuming your comments are serious and not just a general stir I'll rise to the bait.
Where do you get the figure of £3/400 for Yachtmaster practical from as this seems incorrect to me. The cost of the Yachtmaster exam is the cost for the examiner for a day and is around £100 (I can't be bothered to look up the exact figure but it's not bad for a full day of someone's time with admin overheads).
The cost you are quoting is the cost of doing a commercial 5 day course prior to the exam and is not a requisite, of course if you feel you need the training to be able to meet the standard then that's a different matter but if someone can't pass the exam without it perhaps they should carefully consider their qualification to teach others anyway.
It is all very well knowing the theory but if the owner of that knowledge is not capable of putting the theory into practise would you have faith in them?
As to giving out ICC's willy nilly as has already been pointed out there is a set standard for automatic issue and that has nothing to do with the RYA who are acting responsibly in insisting on the standards.
In any case if you don't want to go the Yachtmaster route to get an ICC why not just do the ICC?
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tangomoon
regular
Reged: 18/10/2004
Posts: 1726
Loc: SW
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No, it is a genuine debate.
Have you read the last issue of PBO where Chief Examiner debates this and mentions shortage of teachers due to haviing to be 'over-qualified.'
Cost is if you don't have your own boat and go to a school using theirs.
Careful in fact detailed consideration has been given to whether others can be taught.
http://www.ryasailingcourses.co.uk/rya_sailing_courses/seaschool.htm
ICC as said in my post - you are quite correct and giving them out 'willy nilly' has only been mentioned by you.
Ref taking ICC alone - of course that is an option but that is not the discussion.
Quote:
but if someone can't pass the exam without it perhaps they should carefully consider their qualification to teach others anyway.
I would have thought but am not advocating it, that for someone who is going to teach, doing the whole course whole where a person is assessed and filthy habits they have picked up since passing theory and while watching other less than skilled players, would be ironed out by an instructor who puts them right all day evry day for a week and then they have to sit an exam that the examiner was sure that person was fit to teach others.
Afraid your statement seems to say a lesser standard is acceptable whereas someone who aims higher and wants the expert guidance is frowned upon.
Quote:
It is all very well knowing the theory but if the owner of that knowledge is not capable of putting the theory into practise would you have faith in them?
I only have faith in me, what I can see and know is right and my ability to get myself an others out of mischief. Your statement applies to most people, including me, who achieving their YM or DS theory. Yet off they go - family in tow and trust to what they can remember gradually honing their skills and having narrow escapes or listening to others that they learn from. The RYA evening classes is supplying a lot of info, which if absorbed will keep you out of trouble but it is you who must make yourself skilled in its application (obviously)
However a slight digression it is good to know what others think but what we want is youngsters out on the water and learning NOW.
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chrishelen
regular
Reged: 07/01/2007
Posts: 1289
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post deleted sorry,my info was duff.
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graham
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 6223
Loc: South Wales
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The examination charge for the YM offshore practical is very reasonable for a highly qualified and experienced man usually on a weekend. Compare that with the cost of a plumber / electrician for 12 or more weekend hours.
You cant hold the RYA responsible for the cost of chartering a boat to do the exam in.
Im not sure what alternative there is. The RYA campaigns for voluntary qualification in the UK then sets up a system where those that choose to can obtain qualifications that are respected worldwide.Either take up the challenge or dont ,its not compulsory.
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http://banjocoronado25.blogspot.com/
One mans junk is another mans treasure.Recycle it with http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marinaskip/
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