caroldevon
regular
Reged: 06/07/2007
Posts: 516
Loc: contrary to my username - Cor...
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Am I REALLY ever going to be a liveaboard??? My confidence is in tatters!
Memo to self.......DO NOT try maneuvering unfamiliar semi-long keel yacht in unfamiliar marina (which has strong tidal flow at springs) one day after springs.....
ARGGGHHHH!!
Wild Bird has now been launched but I'm rapidly losing confidence.. or rather on the more positive side- not gaining any! We had an eventful trip moving her from Plymouth yacht Haven to Mayflower (with a sail in between).. (for "eventful" read - "its good job I'm insured with Pantaneus" )- despite hiring an instructor to help.
After slightly better day sailing last week, when I managed to get her into her berth, albeit with a lot of sweating, I decided I needed to have more practice, and today I enlisted an experienced (read racing, fastnet/transat etc) sailing friend to give me some tuition on close quarters handling. We've been waiting for calmer weather for days- and today was the first possible day for a while (though i hadn't checked the tides)
I decided he could take her in and out of her berth a couple of times to show me "how its done!.. Problem was he did no better than me- to cut along story short we ended up sideways pinned against two other boats with me and another guy fending her off... ooops. No harm done other than to my friend's ego and to my confidence!
Discretion being the better part of valour, we decided that it was not a good day for me to practice aforesaid maneuvers (well maybe he also chickened out as well, after his embarrassment) so we beat a hasty retreat and had a beer and lunch instead - maybe better to wait for neaps with no wind!
So... hmmmmm... any other "volunteers" who know all about medium/heavy displacement long keeled yachts to come and act as my mentor? I'm developing into a jibbering wreck and starting to wonder if I should go back to horse riding instead!
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The life and times of the Wild Birds:
http://art-of-remembering.typepad.com/wildbird/
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Yacht_Cloona
regular
Reged: 22/08/2006
Posts: 94
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you are experiencing a little harbour panic - don't worry you are quite safe in the marina and unlikely to do any damage more than a scratch or two and as for getting self conscious in front of spectators just get over it -
go down to boat on a quiet day - start engine, undo the warps in neutral, get back on board and pouther in gear and take her out for a potter around teh moorings and go back in. slowly
- best to do this single handed and then there is no one else to blamne if it all goes wrong ....
if the engine fails throw out the anchor when the water gets shallow and phone for help -
stop arsing about and get on with it -
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Jonny_H
regular
Reged: 15/08/2006
Posts: 1511
Loc: Liveaboard - following the sun...
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Carol,
The first time we took our boat out we had exactly the same thing! We tried to get the back end to swing round, and (with the assistance of a marina hand and a very experienced friend) failed completely to get her to go the way we wanted. She went in the opposite direction quite happily though!
First trick we learnt was which way the prop kicked - starboard in our case - getting her to back to port is impossible unless you have enough space to get some steerage on. Even with the wind on the transom she is tricky to back even in a straight line. A few tricks we've picked up - in reverse give her short bursts of power this gets her moving backwards but removes the majority of the prop kick and you can try and steer her where you want to take her. She will always seek the wind with her transom, so bear this in mind.
When coming into berths - slowly does it - we are notorious for taking for-ever in a day to get into a marina berth. We do the last 100 yards with the engine in neutral - if we need any power to get steerage on its a quick flick into gear and then back to neutral. We managed to come alongside like this last week with 38knots blowing us off. We have, like you a heavy(ish) boat at 11 tons fully laiden, so her momentum carries her a long way, and conversely she takes a lot of reverse to stop her in her tracks (you can't simply slam full astern and stop on the spot like you can in a lighter AWB). Thinking of which - bear in mind the prop kick when stopping her too - in our case I can make a perfect port side to approach and be in exactly the right place with 2 yards to go, if I then give her a little reverse to stop her her stern kicks away from the pontoon and it all gets messy - this is why we do it slowly, so we can get a couple of lines on before we need to stop her using the engine (ideally in the above scenario we get a stern line on and then the prop kick works against the line to bring the bow in).
Lots of fenders too ... a few hundred quid on fenders seems a lot - but wait until you see the repair bill for some GRP work on topsides!
The other thing we have found useful is to scout the area well before you get into the berthing run - we have fenders and lines on before we enter the marina to give us time to see where the berth is and plan once we are in the marina. If it looks too hard, find another berth, raft up to someone else or see if someone will take you lines - any of these is preferable to making a huge mess of berthing - and if you choose another berth and need to move you can always muster up some helpers once your on shore  .
Ours is a medium / heavy displacement and has a semi-long keel with full skeg on the rudder so I would imagine is fairly simalar to yours. I would love to come and man fenders/ropes/boathooks while you practice, but Plymouth is a little far from Newcastle! Have you tried going out on a calm day and motoring around (forwards and backwards) in a bay to get an idea of how she handles under power - you can learn quite a lot this way without worrying about hitting anything!
Hope it all goes well - we were very worried the first time we had to berth our boat, but it seems to get easier every time you do it!
Jonny
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www.freewebs.com/jksailing
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petehb
regular
Reged: 26/12/2001
Posts: 337
Loc: Staffordshire
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Carol your main problems in Mayflower are going to be tidal as I think you have found out, this is particularly so in the outer pontoons. What Johnny has said is very true for boats like ours long keel and heavy. Accept that you may have to reverse out all the way into clear water and dont try to turn her through the wind particularly if the tide is pushing you back towards the berth you have just come out of, you are likly to end up pinned against the downstream boats. Go out in reverse short bursts on the engine accept which way the boat is naturally going to turn and if it is stern first continue, you may well have to straighten her up a couple of times by going foreward which means that your exit will be in the form of a series of linked s's. Definitly check which way the prop kicks, do this in your berth tied up with the engine in astern when you will see which side the water flows and also be able to feel which way the boat is being pushed.
I would definitly counsel against going for it the consequenses don't bear thinking about, definitly think about the tide if possible wait untill the tide is weakening and with you for your first attempts so that you can motor back against it and turn through it.
Perhaps you shouldn't have left the yacht haven, less tide and more sheltered from the wind.
Good luck.
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RAG @ STICK
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stephenh
regular
Reged: 06/01/2002
Posts: 847
Loc: London UK
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Carol - J H has lots of very good points.
I did a w/e close-quarters-handling course with Southern Sailing on a long keeler a good few years ago and the following points still stick in my mind:
to go slowly spend as much time in neutral as possible, but never stop
understand prop walk
practice in clear water (neaps or slack and little wind ) with a buoy as a marker
lots of fenders both sides
tide is often stronger than the wind
don't necessarily use a lot of tiller in reverse - we ended up doing a figure of eight ( in reverse !) - the boat would only do this one way - and by experiment we found that , say, 35 degrees of tiller would do this . More or less and it was a disaster.
Practice, practice practice - easier said than done.....
good luck
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michael_w
regular
Reged: 08/10/2005
Posts: 2218
Loc: South London
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Prop walk is your friend. Get it working in your favour and with a bit of practice you'll berth the boat like a Jedi Master.
"Feel the Force, Carol....."
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"Procrastinate now! Don't put it off"
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Conachair
regular
Reged: 24/01/2004
Posts: 465
Loc: Canaries
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Same thing happened to me there (might have been a different marina, across from Barbican but not through the lock?). Even greener then than I am now. Luckliy there were couple of marina guys to shove me back up to the berth in a rib. SO don't worry, sŁ%t happens. Better there than out at sea, where that keel will be much more welcome. Coming in and out of marinas even in (the usual) flat calm still scares the pants off me much more than anything else so far. Don't worry, it'll be fine and before you know it you'll be far from those tidal currents and all that getting up at 5am to catch the tide.
And agree with the other guys, slow using prop walk works.
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Capn_Pugwash
regular
Reged: 27/06/2006
Posts: 323
Loc: Haslar Marina
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Quote:
Carol,
When coming into berths - slowly does it - we are notorious for taking for-ever in a day to get into a marina berth. We do the last 100 yards with the engine in neutral - if we need any power to get steerage on its a quick flick into gear and then back to neutral.
Jonny
When doing my coastal course, the instructor said "Don't fart about in neutral, the way to do it is a big burst of power, then whack it into reverse". We watched in awe as he demonstrated the technique. Unfortunately when he selected reverse, the gear selector sheared off! As we were doing approx 3 kts, you can imagine the number of G & T's that were spilt, not to mention a few metres of GRP missing from various boats!!!
Lesson learnt - put not your trust in mechanical beasties! Nice and easy does it every time!
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When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
Personalise your boat! Stand out from the crowd!
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KellysEye
regular
Reged: 23/07/2006
Posts: 736
Loc: Curacao
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We have a fourteen ton long keeler so know the issues (we had the same), your post is excellent advice.
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roly_voya
regular
Reged: 05/02/2004
Posts: 1049
Loc: Pembrokeshire Wales
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Just finished putting up a mizzen mast for exactly this reason (plus it lifts the dingy engine etc) Depending on the boat it can be worth looking at being able to set a small sail on the backstay to balence the windage. Being able to chose whether to weather cock bow to wind or stern to wind can help in lots of situations. The teckneque of using a burst of power against a hard over rudder to push the stern on way or the other (not so much that you gain way, just push the stern) is my most useful techneque. With practice it will come but everyone, no matter how experienced, finds some difficulty untill they get used to a boat as they all have there litle foboils
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