Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Hi Chaps,
I was recommended here from another forum (non-sailing related).
I am looking to buy my first yacht, firstly for a crash-pad whilst im working on a contract away from home, and secondly to learn to sail (again) and enjoy the freedom.
I would like to sail across the pond (eventually) but have been recommended to start with a sub 30 footer. I have found a mooring available where I need it, so now I'm stuck with which boat to get!!! (This is where your help comes in... ;o)
As this is also a cost reduction exercise, I have a budget or around 10-15k for the first purchase. There are numerous 30ft boats from the 80's on places like Boatshed in that price range, but which are the good ones?
I am looking for a sensibly sized cabin (1 full time occupant), something reasonably good to learn to sail in, and something I can take the family out on at the weekend - Can you help steer me away from a disaster?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Nic.
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trouville
regular
Reged: 10/06/2004
Posts: 2847
Loc: crusing with an Arpège
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A folkboats a very good idea to begin with!Just by chance i know of one for sail not so far away.
Where will you be mooring??
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liveaboard
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Penarth, Wales.
Sounds interesting, but what is a Folksboat?
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Ah ha - just found Folkboats.com... hmmmm.
That a little less substantial than I had in mind... This was where I started:
http://www.boatshed.com/sadler_32-boat-33376.html
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 784
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Sorry, but at under £15k you will not get a Sadler 32. However, there are vast numbers of sub 30 foot 70s/80s boats on the market, but few are serious for living aboard for long periods - even for one, unless you are very basic. Suggest you just go and look at a variety and get a feel for what is on offer. Many of the performance orientated boats will be very cramped and more spacious boats less good performers, but mostly safe and steady. At the end of the day condition and equipment is probably more important than the specific design.
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Foxy
regular
Reged: 08/03/2006
Posts: 107
Loc: Cruising
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How about dufour arpege for speed and space and cheap cos thers lots of em!
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Sorry, but at under £15k you will not get a Sadler 32.
This one is on offer for £16950... I'm sure thats a little negotiable...
I'm putting comfort over speed/racing ability, and i would be happy to invest in equipment over the long run.
I guess I'm asking which models are the ones to look out for - which ones have the best reputation (from the 80's era at least). I don't want to find a yacht that I think is great, only to find out that it has the worst reputation (for good reason) several months down the line.
Thanks for the replys by the way - your input is greatly appreciated!
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TigaWave
regular
Reged: 17/12/2004
Posts: 1638
Loc: Buckland Monachorum
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Westerly renown, like this...
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/t6837/t6837.htm
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www.H4Marine.com
www.sailonline.org www.sailport.se
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demonboy
regular
Reged: 11/10/2004
Posts: 683
Loc: Boat: Turkey. Me: boat.
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Quote:
and i would be happy to invest in equipment over the long run.
Get used to spending/investing in the long run...it's never ending!
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Follow The Boat Log: May 2008
Add stuff to our Sailing Wiki or add your personal blog details
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 784
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If you look on Yachtworld.com there are about 15 Sadler 32s for sale, mostly around £30k asking plus 3 including this one under £20k. Suggests potentially big expenditure to get it up to scratch, or a desparate seller. Suggest you look at the £30k boats and then make a comparison - it might be a bargain! As to whether the design is any good, just look at the pedigree. Well respected designer, successful boat in its time, active owners club and good secondhand market. However all of these apply to most mainstream boats for the period, so back to the same strategy. Look at lots of boats to see what you think will suit your needs, research archive material eg magazine reports and get advice from brokers/surveyors when you get neasr the buying point.
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David_Jersey
regular
Reged: 22/12/2004
Posts: 1501
Loc: Jersey
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With £10/15K budget and your wish list their will be certain compromises to make........the first one will be on the word "Perfect" 
As no "perfect" boat I will only suggest the one........Westerly Renown / Longbow. (same boat - 1 with small aft cabin / 1 without).
A touch over 30 foot and sail a lot better than they look. A trade off between liveable space (IMO plenty of Light and a seperate sleeping area are important as well as a decent galley area) and still being able to sail.
This one will IMO give you an idea of what you are looking at with your budget for the size of any boat....the minimum is that TLC will be required, on that budget should be perfectly useable for at least day sailing.....but expect / need to spend time and money on her.....just as a wild guesstimate, yer could spend another £10/15k on making her A1 for going anywhere, but she still would not be worth more than early £20's.....but if yer living on her and spending the Rent money on her over time and YOU intend to get the use out of her from the money put in then this may work out as a good idea.
Westrely Renown - £15k
This one is another £5k and yer can see some difference on the TLC required front at least - but may well be that the fundamentals are pretty similar in needing money spent.
Westerly Renown - £19,950
IMO the biggie on both the above (and any other - especially on an older boat) is trying your best to ensure the Engine is not going to need replacement or major work anytime soon (or at all!).....but never any guarantees on that one.
As always, the more money you have the more options - in your shoes I would prefer a budget of £20/25k as will open up a lot more boats in good all round condition - of course not to say that every boat for sale at these prices are in "good all round condition"  , as always, it takes time to find a good 'un at the right price.
As I said, nothing "Perfect"....I am sure folk will suggest plenty of other boats that may work - and perhaps best not to get overly hung up on the model but to buy the best available given your budget, even if this involves some different compromises than you had intended (boats are all about compromises!).
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I support Baan Gerda
Edited by David_Jersey (08/05/2008 10:31)
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Thanks for the replies - after 24 hours research, and your advice - I'm now feeling a little better about what I have to decide. I think my "perfect" boat would be a Tradewinds 35, but at around the £60k mark, that will have to wait a while.
Looking at the Westrely Renown's, I am quite surprised that I think they might do the job very well!!! ;o) Good interior space and solid/reliable. Thanks David - I might go have a look at some of these this weekend!!! ;o)
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David_Jersey
regular
Reged: 22/12/2004
Posts: 1501
Loc: Jersey
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No substitute for simply going and having a look (without cheque book!) at as many as possible.
Don't be shy about asking lots of questions, no matter how dumb you think they are.....and also for advice.
When down a marina have a wonder around for similar boats - if lucky and someone onboard say hello and explain what you are looking at and your low knowledhe base - odds on they will be happy to advise / jump at the chance to show off / talk about their own pride and joy....and things to look out for.
Don't forget that delivery to your chosen berth could be a big factor in your £££ calculations - especially if you need proffesional help and / or some immediate refurb / equipment.....
Have fun 
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I support Baan Gerda
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Abigail
regular
Reged: 06/10/2002
Posts: 565
Loc: South of France
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Definitely agree about taking a good look.
Also, is it worth asking whether one boat can do both plans. The ideal boat to live on to save money while working doesn't have to be a good sailor, or even particualrly moveable! But (believe me speaking from experience) doing lots of fitout while you work and liveaboard is extremely stressful!
The ideal boat on which you want to cruise long term might be very different. You could get your sailing experience by joining a club or two and signing up to crew, either locally or something like the Cruising Association. So you could get something that is living ok/sailing basic on which to live, and then sell it and use the savings and experience to buy something more of what you want in the long run!
HTH
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Sarah & Pip
s/v Roaring Girl
www.sailblogs.com/member/roaringgirl
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
So you could get something that is living ok/sailing basic on which to live, and then sell it and use the savings and experience to buy something more of what you want in the long run!
HTH
Totally agree - this may be my first, but definately wont be my last! ;o)
I want to end up with a much newer 45er - something that can hop the atlantic without hassle etc, but until then, I am looking for a liveaboard trainer.
Penarth Marina (where I need to be based) has a RYA school and boatyard based there which could make any repairs and training easy to organise.
I just had a meeting with the accountant and were trying to work out if I can get away with passing any of the costs on to the company! hehehe.
One other thought - can anyone recommend a surveyor for this type of craft based in or around Cardiff/Penarth?
Guys - thanks for all your input! It's been a great help. I will post any updates as and when.
Cheers, Nic.
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Lemain
regular
Reged: 31/01/2004
Posts: 5222
Loc: Almerimar, Spain
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Westerlys are an excellent choice for you. Well built, comfortable, excellent sea-boats... If you have decided on a Westerly consider joining the excellent owners' association before you buy where you will get unlimited expert advice on all aspects of owning all Westerlys. http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/ There is an email list (Yahoo group) that you can join to post questions - you will usually get at least half a dozen replies plus access to the huge archive of questions previously asked.
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Please turn on your nav lights at night
I have turned off PMs for the cruising season, instead please email to ybw.20.lemain@spamgourmet.com
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12133
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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If the prime purpose is to live aboard, have a look at some catamarans as well. You get a lot more accomodation and comfort.
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"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
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nickrj
regular
Reged: 21/07/2006
Posts: 337
Loc: Caribbean, heading to New York
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Just get something you can stand up in.
Trust me.
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My Blog, singlehanded from Europe to Australia http://www.bigoceans.com
Low cost environmentally conscious web hosting http://www.serversaurus.com
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
If the prime purpose is to live aboard, have a look at some catamarans as well. You get a lot more accomodation and comfort.
I LUV Cat's.... Thats what i used to sail (little ones that is - Hobie 18s etc). Not sure the Harbour manager would like one though - as they are quite wide...
Any particular thoughts given my budget?
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Just get something you can stand up in.
Trust me.
LOL - Very good point... I am a man who stand well above 6ft tall... I guess this is most important in the Head... ;o)
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David_Jersey
regular
Reged: 22/12/2004
Posts: 1501
Loc: Jersey
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Quote:
Quote:
Just get something you can stand up in.
Trust me.
LOL - Very good point... I am a man who stand well above 6ft tall... I guess this is most important in the Head... ;o)
I think you will find that the Head is the one place where you will struggle to find 6 Foot (plus) headroom.......
Odds on you won't find it in the forecabin either. A Renown has good headroom in the Saloon, me is 5'11 and I don't recall any problems - but maybe depends on how much over 6 foot you are talking about......from what I read very tall folk do struggle on this with many / most boats.......also make sure you can fit the bunks!
Personally I would defo want full standing headroom (wearing shoes) over the Galley and most (if not all) the Saloon. In the Head I would swap height for elbow room (within reason).
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I support Baan Gerda
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Talbot
regular
Reged: 23/08/2003
Posts: 12133
Loc: Stavanger, Norway
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The older British Cats are not that wide.
suggest you look at THIS
and look at the Catalac 8m and Heavenly Twins II or III They have some within or could be bargained to within your budget.
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"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
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anteak
regular
Reged: 28/01/2004
Posts: 862
Loc: lowestoft
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'Perfect choice for a liveaboard'
Perhaps when this has been defined we can move on to:
'Perfect choice for a car'
'Perfect choice for a woman'
!!!!!!
chacun a son gout 
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farquart
regular
Reged: 26/10/2003
Posts: 183
Loc: POOLE
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Hi Nic nice to see you made it over here
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mortgage broker
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TigaWave
regular
Reged: 17/12/2004
Posts: 1638
Loc: Buckland Monachorum
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Easy, and they're both Swedish
Actually the Swedish boats aren't bad either?>
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www.H4Marine.com
www.sailonline.org www.sailport.se
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anteak
regular
Reged: 28/01/2004
Posts: 862
Loc: lowestoft
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Yep! Would agree with that!
However, I thought the perfect woman was a dumb nymphomaniac who lives over a pub.
I suppose a Swedish dumb nymphomaniac with her own classic Enderlein would be too much to ask. 
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csail
regular
Reged: 24/08/2005
Posts: 2933
Loc: Rhoose/Cardiff Bay,UK
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You could buy mine which is ideal to live on but you will need another 15k
 
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Marine grade vinyl boat names & graphics made to order just pm me or andy.higson@h2o-marine.co.uk
Delivery Europe. Reduced price for you guys seeing as it is only a hobby.Also now doing custom t-shirts etc. http://www.h2o-marine.co.uk/
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Hi Nic nice to see you made it over here
Hey John - Thanks for the pointer - great crowd over here! Looking good for a solid Westerly Renown which is need of a bit of updating... ;o)
I've also managed to round up a bit of a crew to help me sail from buyers location to Penarth - 1 South West racing champion, one old multi-translantic crossing sea dog, and one off-shore crew... it's amazing what you find out about your family friends when you mention the possibility of buying a boat... LOL
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Swissnic
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 16
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
You could buy mine which is ideal to live on but you will need another 15k
LOL - Would you take a cheque?
She looks lovely! I would like to get mine to that standard after a 12 months or so.
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maxi77
regular
Reged: 11/11/2007
Posts: 251
Loc: Kingdom of Fife
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The only sensible answer is yo actually go and look at botas youmay be able to afford, only you will know how you like the space laid out, only you will know whether you will be able to take on the upgrade/maintainance load and so on.
If it is in your price range it is an option till you have seen it and discounted it.
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Peter
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