Cornishman
regular
Reged: 29/07/2002
Posts: 4663
Loc: Cornwall
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A forecaster on the BBC R4 Today programme this morning spoke of Haar when that master of interrupting somebody who is speaking, John Humphries, cried out Haar? with a large question mark in his intonation, ignoramus that he is.
Coastal fog has different names in different parts of the country. Some, f'rinstance, call it Fret. What do you call it?
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Cornishmen do it drekly
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Stingo
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Reged: 17/10/2001
Posts: 6501
Loc: Durban
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Fog.
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MoodySabre
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Reged: 24/10/2006
Posts: 3695
Loc: Bradwell and Leigh-on-Sea
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Murk
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Don't believe everything you think.
Interesting old books
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Cornishman
regular
Reged: 29/07/2002
Posts: 4663
Loc: Cornwall
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But what sort? It matters.
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Cornishmen do it drekly
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boatmike
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Reged: 30/06/2002
Posts: 4399
Loc: Solent
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That's original! 
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Iota
regular
Reged: 03/10/2002
Posts: 709
Loc: Devon
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sea fret as adverse to a hill fret i.e. on moors etc
Iota
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Iota
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Morgana
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Reged: 28/08/2003
Posts: 12432
Loc: East Coast
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Yep.... we're users of the grand term 'Murk' to.......
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KenMcCulloch
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Reged: 22/04/2007
Posts: 865
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Haar is very specific to the east coast of Scotland, appearing on a NE wind in the spring and early summer. On the west coast of Scotland fog is fog.
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Ken McCulloch
Border Maid
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Chrusty1
regular
Reged: 27/02/2008
Posts: 847
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Sludge.........as in "it's looking a bit sludgey out there today".........
By the way, John Humphries, ignorant??? He may be a lot of things, but I don't think you can rightly say that he is ignorant.
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Jimi
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Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 16081
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Clag
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OcklePoint
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Reged: 15/01/2007
Posts: 267
Loc: One end of the A1
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I agree with Ken McC
Haar is fairly specific to the North Sea coast and is usually a spring/early summer event. Something to do with cold water and warm winds, or is it warm wind an cold water.
It can be a real curse in Edinburgh. If you live near the shore you can spend a week in cold dark clammy stuff when half a mile up the road is in glorious sunshine
On the West Coast it's just fog
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Teredo
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Reged: 10/04/2006
Posts: 527
Loc: Kingdom of Northumbria
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Ken, haar is in use here, as well as fret.
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Blow wind, rise storm,
Ship ashore before dawn.
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bilbobaggins
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Reged: 12/02/2005
Posts: 6917
Loc: The Shire
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'Haar' is derivative in the Northumberland and Fife dialects from Norse/Dansk roots, and one will hear it used from Aberdeenshire to Whitby.
There is also 'Smirn', which also describes a tiny-droplet, soaking drizzle - which is one step up from 'haar'. It's the same stuff....
Just as the Inuit have close on a thousand words for snow, so do the Scots have a similar number of expressions for rain - not all of 'em repeatable on a family show!
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Hyperborean
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Reged: 19/01/2006
Posts: 15
Loc: Orkney
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Sea fog/Haar. Formed when air which is close to saturation passes over a colder surface ie the sea. This causes cooling of the air mass so bringing the temperature down to the dew point. The moisture condenses out as fog or drizzle. This is a more dynamic process that the gentle cooling over land which is why sea fog can be found in 40kts of wind. Incidentally in my experience of the East Coast of Scotland it is more prevalent in SE rather thn NE winds.
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PyroJames
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Reged: 09/08/2002
Posts: 996
Loc: Cambridge
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Bloody annoying!
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Jimi
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Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 16081
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We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
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OcklePoint
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Reged: 15/01/2007
Posts: 267
Loc: One end of the A1
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Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
We still do, too often
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LakeSailor
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Reged: 15/02/2005
Posts: 26702
Loc: ation : Lake District
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Used to be called a roke (spelling?) in East Yorkshire
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If I can misunderstand, I will misunderstand.
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kds
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Reged: 21/11/2002
Posts: 1483
Loc: Somerset
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"Burnham Blight" on this side of the Bristol Channel.
Ken
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Canon Grange Bed and Breakfast, Cathedral Green, Wells, Somerset
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sarabande
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Reged: 06/05/2005
Posts: 5374
Loc: Thames valley, or up on the mo...
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FWIW on Exmoor, I've heard low cloud and fog described as "myseling".
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Enlightenment is motor-sailing
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KenMcCulloch
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Reged: 22/04/2007
Posts: 865
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Quote:
It can be a real curse in Edinburgh. If you live near the shore you can spend a week in cold dark clammy stuff when half a mile up the road is in glorious sunshine
Indeed. I am just back in town after visiting a site in Midlothian, about 10M inland and 200m altitude, it's a warm summer day there and rather chilly here near the sea at an altitude of about 30m.
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Ken McCulloch
Border Maid
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Scillypete
regular
Reged: 11/06/2003
Posts: 443
Loc: Isles of Scilly
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Misty - vis about a mile
thick - vis about half a mile
Thick as a bag - can't see the quay across the harbour
Mizzlin - if its misty and lightly drizzling
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smeaks
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Reged: 31/08/2003
Posts: 308
Loc: tyneside
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may and june
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jenku
regular
Reged: 23/02/2004
Posts: 667
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
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Quote:
Used to be called a roke (spelling?) in East Yorkshire
This sounds like the most norse word to me as it is called (sjö)rök in Swedish and the Norwegian pronounciation should sound something like "royk". The meaning is essentially (sea)smoke.
Haar isn't something that I can connect to any Scandinavian/Norse word, at least right now...
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Jimi
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Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 16081
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I've always thought the word Haar to have a Dutch connection,(suprisingly many Scots words have this origin as there was much interchange between the nations). My grandfather (from Fife originally but resident in Edinburgh) always spoke of the cold east wind haar, associating it with both mist and a cold east wind. The Scots dictionary definition tends to confirm this
"The word is of Dutch origin, coming either from Middle Dutch hare, a biting wind, or Frisian harig, damp"
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LakeSailor
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Reged: 15/02/2005
Posts: 26702
Loc: ation : Lake District
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Ah. Found a page from someone in East Yorkshire with mention of sea rokes and pictures.
Here
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If I can misunderstand, I will misunderstand.
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Cornishman
regular
Reged: 29/07/2002
Posts: 4663
Loc: Cornwall
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Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
Wasn't that word invented by David Ike?
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Cornishmen do it drekly
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Jimi
regular
Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 16081
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Quote:
Quote:
We used to call that mixture of mist and drizzle mizzle
Wasn't that word invented by David Ike?
Possibly, but must have been in one of his a previous lives, again probably of Dutch origin
mizˇzle 1 (mzl)
intr.v. mizˇzled, mizˇzling, mizˇzles
To rain in fine, mistlike droplets; drizzle.
n.
A mistlike rain; a drizzle.
[Middle English misellen; probably akin to Dutch dialectal mieselen
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Cornishman
regular
Reged: 29/07/2002
Posts: 4663
Loc: Cornwall
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Quote:
'Haar' is derivative in the Northumberland and Fife dialects from Norse/Dansk roots
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary the word is "perhaps from Old Norse harr meaning hairy or hoary".
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Cornishmen do it drekly
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peterb
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Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 2085
Loc: Radlett, Herts
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The Concise Oxford gives it as a seafog on the east coast of England or Scotland (I've heard it in Norfolk), and suggest that it comes from the old Norse word for "hoar". It gives hoar as having Germanic roots and meaning grey.
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Jimi
regular
Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 16081
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Interestingly even in my lifetime the meaning of this word has altered. In NE Scotland as a youth it was used to refer more to the cold wind than the mist associated with it. In these days, prior to BBC english, words meant different things in different areas. Now, I agree, it is associated more with a sea fog than anything else.
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mortehoe
regular
Reged: 19/09/2006
Posts: 180
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I'm from North Devon (once upon a long time ago)
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Kantara
regular
Reged: 27/08/2003
Posts: 109
Loc: Scotland West Coast
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Definitely Haar in East Scotland. However, I remember being on holiday on the coast near Dorchester when the local radio referred to it as being 'a bit humid' - classic sea fog, 10 degrees colder than just inland!
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Chris
Kantara RA6
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SimonT
regular
Reged: 09/01/2006
Posts: 272
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Quote:
Ken, haar is in use here, as well as fret.
haar is the result of a specific wind direction, whereas fret isn't, then there's smirn - where you get wet by walking in it.
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AntarcticPilot
regular
Reged: 04/05/2007
Posts: 152
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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"Haar" is also a term |
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