RGH
regular
Reged: 03/01/2005
Posts: 117
Loc: North Somerset.
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My liferaft will cost half of new to service, instead of buying new thought I would rent for next trip across English channel and not bother to buy one for coastal cruising, what do you all do ? I`d be very interested to know.
RGH
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bendyone
regular
Reged: 19/01/2003
Posts: 1317
Loc: Calais
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Buy a new one and put the old one on ebay, should break even.
Having one is nice but like any safety gear only needed if you have problems. thats the gamble. 
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www.sailroom.co.uk
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Kermudjon
regular
Reged: 14/02/2007
Posts: 1271
Loc: Essex
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It depends a bit on what you mean by "coastal cruising" and what seasons or weather you go out in. I would not criticise anyone for not having one, having sailed abroad with half a dinghy on deck for many years.
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Login_name
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 555
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Coastal: No
Channel: Preferably
Further afield: Yes
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alan17
regular
Reged: 12/03/2006
Posts: 274
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If ever you reach the time when you need to take to a liferaft you would hopefully survive to kick yourself for not having bought. They are expensive but so are most safety devices.
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David_Jersey
regular
Reged: 22/12/2004
Posts: 1678
Loc: Jersey
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Only "Needed" if you sink / catch fire.
I would never recomend that anyone not have one.
Me on the other hand am always happy to do what I want.........
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I support Baan Gerda
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Login_name
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 555
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Of course, but I suspect that the vast majority of coastal cruisers and a large minority of channel cruisers don't have one.
We were asked what do people do, not what is ideal.
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1310
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Don't know whether the search engine works, but about 3 months ago there was a long series of threads on this subject with over 300 posts. They displayed all shades of opinion. If you want to know whether liferafts are any good for your situation read the MAIB Leisure craft accident reports and form your own opinion.
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Morgana
regular
Reged: 28/08/2003
Posts: 12403
Loc: East Coast
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Quote:
Of course, but I suspect that the vast majority of coastal cruisers and a large minority of channel cruisers don't have one.
I agree with much of the commentary above, but not sure I agree with that observation.... I think that a significant percentage of boats nowadays have a liferaft onboard.
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Login_name
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 555
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The RYA booklet "Safety at Sea" (I think) also lists their recommendations. My copy is on the boat, so it's not much help mentioning it is it?
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Gludy
regular
Reged: 19/08/2001
Posts: 6644
Loc: Brecon, Wales
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I would make sure you get a self righting one - if you ever need it there is a 50per cent chance a norrmal one will inflate upside down and they are not easy to right is a rough sea.
Viking ones are very good.
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St Francis 50 Cat
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Chrusty1
regular
Reged: 27/02/2008
Posts: 847
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Quote:
Quote:
Of course, but I suspect that the vast majority of coastal cruisers and a large minority of channel cruisers don't have one.
I agree with much of the commentary above, but not sure I agree with that observation.... I think that a significant percentage of boats nowadays have a liferaft onboard.
I would think that a more than significant number do not.....they are too expensive to just sit on the deck as a bit of boaty bling, You will probably see more of them if you frequent the posher boaty areas, and Marinas.....but there are thousands of boats up and down the UK, that are not kept in Marinas, in fact I would venture to suggest, that there are more boats in the cheaper end of the price range where a life raft is not seen as top of the list when it comes to parting with ones hard earned.....From a safety point of view, people who are sailing on a tight budget, make different arrangements for their safety.
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homa
regular
Reged: 12/05/2002
Posts: 673
Loc: N.Sea
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What I have done, my father before me and most of my sailing friends:
Coastal sailing - half inflated dinghy on deck, or towed dinghy astern.
Cross Channel - half inflated dinghy on deck or occasionally have hired a liferaft for the trip.
Now I have a young family my priorities have changed a bit, last year I bought a liferaft & fitted it on deck with a hydrostatic release.
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Moonfire
regular
Reged: 09/11/2004
Posts: 621
Loc: Medway, UK
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If you overnight sail along the coast then I think it becomes more important, likewise if you sail out of season. There have been a couple of instances in the last few years when a yacht has suddenly capsized or been severely holed and sunk at night due to striking a submerged / invisible object - one incident in the Thames and one to the south of the Isle of Wight as I recall. The Thames incident prompted me to go and buy one. If all you do is sail in crowded waters where rescue is close by then the need diminshes, likewise if you are prepared to tow a fully inflated dinghy
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alant
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 1897
Loc: UK - Solent region
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I would rent for next trip across English channel and not bother to buy one for coastal cruising, what do you all do ? I`d be very interested to know.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think about it.
Is the English Channel deeper than the Bristol Channel?
Is the Bristol Channel deeper than the Solent?
Is the Solent deeper than the Serpentine?
Is the English Channel colder than the Bristol Channel?
Is the Bristol Channel colder than the Serpentine?
I only know that all 3 are a bloody sight deeper than I am tall, when on tiptoe to my statuesque height of 6' (ok I exagerate a bit).
I also know, that I wouldn't want to be swimming in any of them for hours at this time of year!
So YES, I'd prefer to have a liferaft, should the proverbial hit the fan!
Also, unless you are sailing SOLO, YOU are responsible for the lives & welfare of all the others on board.
You cannot order one from e-bay when you are up to your neck in cold deadly water, so consider the consequences, not the cost!
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michael_w
regular
Reged: 08/10/2005
Posts: 2213
Loc: South London
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Depends on how much you sail. If you treat your boat as a country cottage and rarely head out to sea, a liferaft is an expense you can do without. Hiring will suffice for the annual holiday cruise.
If you use your boat lots and passage make on a regular basis, your needs will change. Even very close to home it might take an hour for you to be picked up should disaster happen. It's a long time to be treading water...
A chum thought it would be OK for him, his SWMBO and his three children, all under the age of six, to rely on the soggy dinghy. I'm pleased to say, I managed to beat some sense into him.
Offshore racing and you must have one on board anyhow.
When I sailed from the Hamble I decided that we'd have one onboard if we were headed out of The Solent. After a couple of races it was cost effective to go for long term hire.
Then I bought one for our Atlantic circuit as we were away for two years.
On my current boat, a cheapo liferaft came with the inventory. This will do us for the next year or two in the North Sea. When SWMBO and I head off in a year or two a new SOLAS raft is on the shopping list.
Sorry for waffling on.
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"Procrastinate now! Don't put it off"
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homa
regular
Reged: 12/05/2002
Posts: 673
Loc: N.Sea
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Something to consider....
Of the MOB in the N.Sea, I suspect more deaths have been caused by exposure rather than drowning.
So for that reason alone I would consider an enclosed liferaft to be better than an open dinghy.
Just a thought.......
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1310
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Do you have details of the incident in the Thames? have not come across that one. The capsized yachts were both extreme racing machines where the keels fell off. Not representative of typical cruisers, although good lessons to be learned from the "Hooligan" incident - well covered in the press.
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Chrusty1
regular
Reged: 27/02/2008
Posts: 847
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I just had a look at your Bio......and yes, I can see why you think as you do.....
I think though, that you are ignoring the fact that a lot of people just simply cannot afford a liferaft, and make do with other arrangements.
We see this a lot on these forums, and it's understandable enough I suppose, because it's probably the case that most contributors are shall we say fairly comfortably off? This being the case, I think it's understandable that they don't relate to the needs and financial constraints of thousands of sailors in the UK..........£500 ish, for a 4 man liferaft is about half or a third of the value of some peoples boats.
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Moonfire
regular
Reged: 09/11/2004
Posts: 621
Loc: Medway, UK
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both incidents involved cruising yachts (not Hooligan); both reported in YM, neither due to a keel falling off, afraid I cannot recall when but trust me I'm not making it up.
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BlueChip
regular
Reged: 24/08/2004
Posts: 1509
Loc: Bucks/Gosport
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Liferaft now costs approx £500+, what price the lives of your family and friends?
Its like life insurance, you pay your premiums and hope your family never have to claim
A fire is as likely to happen inshore as on a cross channel crossing.
Life expectancy in the sea this time of the year- jut a few minutes?
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mikehibb
regular
Reged: 23/09/2007
Posts: 408
Loc: Turkey Azerbaijan and Georgia
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I Life raft is just like an insurance policy, something that costs extra and you hope you do not need it, but if you get into a situation where you need one you will regret not having one.
I am a med sailor (Coastal) an luckily my boat came with one, I would still have invested in one anyway.
UK sailing has much colder waters, it is not so much how far you sail from the shore, but how far you can swim in cold water espicially if injured or already tired after trying to save the boat.
Down to personal choice, my choice is to have one.
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steve_clayton
regular
Reged: 22/05/2003
Posts: 2482
Loc: king; I did RAF training there
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Do your own risk assessment.
1. What's the worst possible impact if you don't have a liferaft?
2. What's the likelihood of you having to use it?
3. Does the cost outweigh the worst possible impact above?
AND if you haven't done it then do do the sea survival 1 day course!!!
My answers:
1 .You, and others whose saftey is in your hands, die
2. Unless your answer is "never" then answer to no 1. over-rides your answer
3. What price do you put on life?
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Much work still remains to be done before I can announce my total failure to make any progress
www.seraph-sailing.com
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SAWDOC
regular
Reged: 24/02/2008
Posts: 144
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In the absence of a liferaft for whatever reason, I would not do any coastal cruising without an inflated dinghy or a solid dinghy towed astern.
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RGH
regular
Reged: 03/01/2005
Posts: 117
Loc: North Somerset.
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You see the orc 6 man cannister liferaft "plastimo" I have was new in 2002, cost to maintain in 2005 was £180, cost to maintain this month £486,( the magazines seem to say don`t buy the cheaper ones), so approx. cost to date of this particular one inc.purchase is £1,866 over 6 years so far, and yes what price safety, I did ask what do you do and I bet the vast majority don`t have one.
However, thanks for your replies.
RGH
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Searush
regular
Reged: 14/10/2006
Posts: 3938
Loc: k up if caught.
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I have never had or required one in 35 years of Irish Sea cruising. Mostly inshore/ coastal (where the rocks are!) lots of strong tides (11m springs) overfalls and even a traffic separation zone. Have done passages to Ireland & IoM and not felt a need for one.
Yes, the consequences of sinking without one are dire. But yacht sinkings on shortish passages - like mine, are rare, very rare. I can live (or die) with that. Why do we have to get emotional blackmail to buy liferafts? Aside of oceanic passages, has anyone on here ever used one in earnest (ignoring pool sessions)?
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1310
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Not suggesting you are. I can only assume that the capsize was the charter boat that was overwhelmed in the Needles Channel. One crew survived in the boat. A liferaft was not deployed and it is unlikely that a liferaft would have made any difference to the outcome because two of the crew were swept overboard and the other drowned by being trapped underwater in the boat which stayed afloat and was washed ashore.
Still interested in the Thames estuary incident as it does not sseem to appear on any MAIB report.
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Login_name
regular
Reged: 07/05/2008
Posts: 555
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That's much how I feel about it too.
In the Fastnet didn't more people die in liferafts than died on boats? Possibly a false sense of security?
In any event, by all accounts people who have spent any time in a liferaft in real conditions always say that they wish they were dead!
Of course a liferaft is desirable, but I think the implication that it is essential in all situations is a little O.T.T.
I wonder how many of those who reckon a liferaft is essential have not had theirs serviced this year, or don't carry an EPIRB, or who have out of date flares, or have taken a short cut on maintenance, or have not filed a passage plan etc etc. All of these things could be argued as being "essential".
Safety can't be 100%, but it can be managed.
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peterb
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 2075
Loc: Radlett, Herts
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Don't forget the Ouzo. The MAIB report says that if they had had a liferaft they would probably have survived. And don't forget the Wahkuna. They did have a liferaft, and used it. They were spotted by a ferry some 6 hours later (if I remember correctly) and survived. Without that liferaft would they have survived to be spotted? Would they have been spotted at all?
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1310
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The Ouzo comment is overstating the case. This was almost certainly a catastrophic event and it is unlikely that a liferaft would have been deployed effectively. There are no reported cases in MAIB reports where a raft was successful in such (very rare) incidents.
Wakhuna is a very different case as she took some (relative) time to sink and the abandon ship was in an organised manner. It was also almost calm and in daylight. However, in a similar case (Megawat) which also sank slowly after a structural failure, the raft failed to inflate. Fortunately there was another yacht close by which rescued the crew.
Leave you to draw your own conclusions
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Nicki_Crutchfield
regular
Reged: 07/03/2005
Posts: 421
Loc: North Devon
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It's like god; if you believe use it, if not don't.
Nicki
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csail
regular
Reged: 24/08/2005
Posts: 3576
Loc: Rhoose/Cardiff Bay,UK
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I just bought one after reading some MAIB article. I reckon swmbo and i would be fine without (just drysuits and epirb) but having 3 yr old son on board prompted me to buy one. Also we do a lot of night sailing!
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Reduced price for you guys seeing as it is only a hobby. http://www.h2o-marine.co.uk/
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alant
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 1897
Loc: UK - Solent region
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