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PMD
regular


Reged: 24/07/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Wiltshire
State of the River
      #1877434 - 31/05/2008 12:40

The following is an e-mail I have sent to various parties in the hope (??) that someone will react to the ever worsening situation on the river.

I write this from the perspective of over forty years boating experience, twenty five of which I have been based on the Thames using the river extensively between Letchlade and Teddington.

The question is, what is the Environment Agency doing (not doing) to one of the Country’s major assets? The overall consensus of river users on the Thames, is that we are currently witnessing the rapid demise of, what was once, one of the most beautiful, vibrant and enjoyable leisure facility open to all members of the public.

If there is any doubt about this rapid demise just read through the following facts :-

1. For about the fourth time this year, it may be more, we are holed up in the marina because the river is yet again in flood. Records show that the rainfall this year is no worse than previous years, yet we are constantly experiencing the virtual closure of the river, despite paying nearly £800 in licence fees to the EA. What are they doing with this money, apart from paying obscene salaries to the higher echelons of the EA?
2. It is an unquestionable fact that we are paying more and more for our annual licence, and receiving less and less for the ever growing financial burden. The majority of locks have never looked so scruffy. The lock keepers have been told to grass over what were beautiful flower beds, even to the extent that I am informed that at one lock, the lock keeper has been told to lay astro-turf to save on maintenance. They are no longer allowed to cut their grass on the lockside banks, it being deemed unsafe after one particular lock keeper was told it was contrary to Health & Safety legislation, although he had been cutting the grass for over twenty five years without mishap. They are no longer allowed to cut their hedges because last year a lock keeper knicked his finger cutting his hedge. Now based on Health & Safety excuses, the hedges remain uncut, albeit they now spend a fortune employing outside contractors, in theory anyway! Yet again a bureaucracy is using the Health & Safety legislation for their own ends, rather than using the legislation for what it was actually meant for.
3. The financial cost of installing “electric out of hours facilities at the locks for public use” is a scandal. The reason given is to provide better facilities for the boating public, yet we all know the real reason is the imminent loss of the residential lock keepers. And why pay for the additional electric facility, when every lock below Oxford already has electric provision, yet the public are not allowed to use it. So what do the EA do, they duplicate the facility at out expense.
4. Since I have been on the Thames the EA, and its predecessors, have guaranteed minimum depths throughout the river. These guaranteed depths are no longer maintained. Try navigating through Benson lock, or Clifton Hampden. Due to the inactivity of the EA you cannot guaranteed being able to transit these two points on the Thames, thereby severely restricting our use of the river, despite an ever increasing licence fee. I read recently that the EA were unable to maintain the depth upriver of Benson lock because the shape of the river and the currents in this area, makes it difficult to maintain the required depths. Can I ask when did the shape of the river change at Benson? Certainly not in the past twenty five years that I have been on the river. Secondly, why has all the dredging equipment been sat at Benson for weeks now, without any action being taken?
5. The EA have achieved one important thing. They have totally killed off what is now a thoroughly demoralised workforce. I have never known an industry where the staff are so demoralised. They are operating in a virtual “police state” type environment. Going back they were keen to chat with you as you transited their lock. Now they are so paranoid about “Big Brother” at Reading that the first question you are invariably asked is when you instigate a conversation with them is “You’re not from the press are you?” We are under threat of dismissal if we talk to the press. What a way to put a “people type” organisation.
6. The demoralised state of the lock keepers is indicative of the lowering of standards in their dress code. It is true that some lock keepers maintain, as a matter of their own pride, a commendable dress code. Others, sadly resort to jeans and tee shirts while on duty. This all adds to the overall assessment that the entire structure is falling to pieces.
7. The river and the moorings are becoming choked with dossers and river tramps, the majority residing on the river bank in unlicensed boats. When I questioned this by a telephone call to the EA, I was told in a most patronising way that I didn’t know what I was talking about. I offered to meet the river inspector every morning at Tesco’s moorings in Reading to prove my point. Needless to say, that despite this site being a mere few yards from his office he declined the invitation. I wonder why. His next comment did astound me however. He stated that a licence was not required on the river unless the boat is under way. From this I can only assume that all the unlicensed boats on the Thames have been parachuted in. What a feat!! It obviously been organised by someone other than the EA!!
8. I was told of a conversation just the other day with an Inspector on the EA launch, a sighting more rare nowadays than spotting a chocolate tea pot. When the Inspector was asked why are you not out and about as frequently as you used to be, he said that we don’t venture out as much now because of the constant abuse we suffer from the genuine boater trying to use the river. Says it all really doesn’t it!!
9. During this latest river closure we went onto the web site on Saturday morning to find out what the current red board situation was, only to find that the web site hadn’t been updated for the weekend. When is the river used most? When is the information going to be of most use? Could I suggest without too much common sense being required, possibly at the weekend. Accepting this the EA do not find it necessary to update their site for weekenders!!
10. I understand that the EA are actually becoming concerned at the ever decreasing river usage, to the extent that they are surveying boaters who have not re-licensed their boats for the river this year. They must be absolutely naive and operating in a vacuum, if they cannot establish the real facts based on what everyone is writing in magazines, journals and the press. Nowadays the EA is solely reliant on canal boats coming onto the river from the canal system. Such usage is a comparatively new phenomenon, certainly as far as numbers are concerned. It is a fact that because the numbers of canal boats on the river is a relative new situation, they are not aware of how good the river USED to be, and how it is declining.

The only option to some of us, and sadly not all can do this, is to leave the river that we once loved, enjoyed and had a great deal of respect for, and move the boat abroad to Holland or France, where boaters are respected, encouraged and not “ripped off” as is now the current situation on the Thames via the “management” of the Environment Agency. With an exodus of previously loyal boaters this will exasperate the current situation on the river, but what option do we have. The Environment Agencies management of the river has been shown to be at the best, totally inept and at their worst totally useless.

Reading through the above you really do realise how serious the situation has become. I trust that someone in authority, from wherever, will have the courage to deal with the issues detailed above, and above all will have the courage to engage in a discussion with me, other boaters, organisations who are all of like mind and are becoming more and more distressed at what the Environment Agency are doing to the river. Above all please, please do not treat those showing extreme concern at the current situation in the patronising way in which you done so in the past. The concerns registered here are genuine and I am sure I speak for most, if not all River Thames users. We deserve to be listened too.

Peter Dowell


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byron
regular


Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 6831
Loc: UK -Berks
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1877474 - 31/05/2008 13:41

Don't you feel like King Knut? The river is falling apart and no one can hold back the tide as much as I admire everyone's efforts.

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http://www.oceaneagle.fsnet.co.uk
www.alexander-advertising.co.uk


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Richard_SheadAdministrator
Head of Marketing


Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 1294
Loc: ated here
Re: State of the River [Re: byron]
      #1877551 - 31/05/2008 16:38

As much as I hate to see someone homeless there is one less "river gypsy" above Teddingoton today, the one with the two big dogs who leave all their waste on the towpath.

He sunk at about 11 am today on the small boat club island..


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Cuchilo
regular


Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: Richard_Shead]
      #1877565 - 31/05/2008 16:54

Do you have any more details Richard ? What boat and how it sank ?

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Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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Richard_SheadAdministrator
Head of Marketing


Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 1294
Loc: ated here
Re: State of the River [Re: Cuchilo]
      #1877660 - 31/05/2008 19:04

Dont know what type 27 foot long with aft cockpit and hardtop, very old and in a mess.

He normally moors on Tedd Tow path and has two big Alsatians, dont tell me he is your best mate!


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Cuchilo
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Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: Richard_Shead]
      #1877664 - 31/05/2008 19:08

Naaaa my best mate lives below Teddington , is old and a mess
Was it the Lensbury where he sank ? I bet they will love that Or the rowing club further up ?

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Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .

Edited by Cuchilo (31/05/2008 19:13)


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Richard_SheadAdministrator
Head of Marketing


Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 1294
Loc: ated here
Re: State of the River [Re: Cuchilo]
      #1877670 - 31/05/2008 19:22

No just further up on the left the little island opposite boaters Inn, silly thing is if he was at his normal hide out he would have only sunk about 1 foot!

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teddington_lock
regular


Reged: 23/10/2007
Posts: 300
Re: State of the River [Re: Richard_Shead]
      #1877699 - 31/05/2008 20:07

Stevens Ait

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Richard_SheadAdministrator
Head of Marketing


Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 1294
Loc: ated here
Re: State of the River [Re: teddington_lock]
      #1877756 - 31/05/2008 21:15

Moorish Idol was the name of the boat I think the chaps name was Andy in fact just had a thought, not sure how he is going to get off the island now his boat has sunk......

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Cuchilo
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Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: Richard_Shead]
      #1877813 - 31/05/2008 22:34

Why would he want to , he's probably trying to refloat his house . I seem to remember that island is another haunt for them but i could be wrong .

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Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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Richard_SheadAdministrator
Head of Marketing


Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 1294
Loc: ated here
Re: State of the River [Re: Cuchilo]
      #1877816 - 31/05/2008 22:38

From what i saw I cant see it being refloated anytime soon...

And yes that is a haunt for those who dont pay council tax..

That said I hope he has a bed for the night


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Cuchilo
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Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: Richard_Shead]
      #1877848 - 31/05/2008 23:40

Might nip down in the dingy tomorrow to see if i can lend a hand .

--------------------
Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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Chris_d
regular


Reged: 15/06/2001
Posts: 1617
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1877999 - 01/06/2008 09:50

I'm begining to think that Health and safety is a big contributer to the Rivers problems. Most of the neglect is either due to Health and safety issues meaning it doesn't take place or makes it too expensive. At last years refurb of Days lock, a huge fenced no go zone had to be erected, a little hut to book people in and out, a hard hat area and dressing hut, all sorts of signs and safety kit everywhere, this must have cost the EA a fortune before they could have even start the little bit of repointing they had to do!
Also the shoals at Benson lock, I'm told that it has in fact been dredged 3 times this year, but everytime I go through I hit the shoal. The problem is that due to health and safety your not allowed to remove the material (a health hazard if left on the bank), they can only move it around on the river bed so of course it keeps coming back.
This problem is not just restricted to the EA, its Britain as a whole and one of the reasons nothing is manufactured here any more, go to China and see H&S they won't understand. We used to be shafted by well meaning Trade Unions but now the same metaltily works for the H&S executive. What we need to do is prove that a poorly maintained river is bad for our Health and sue the EA


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old_man_of_the_river
new user


Reged: 27/05/2008
Posts: 7
Loc: Oxfordshire
Re: State of the River [Re: Chris_d]
      #1878203 - 01/06/2008 14:31

I'm sure the widow of the Shiplake lockkeeper who died in '82 is quite sad that 'Elf & Safety wasn't really around in those days to prevent her husband from drowning - no lifejackets, no harnesses, no guard rails on the weirs then. Oh yes, the river was so well run in the good old days!

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ikem
new user


Reged: 13/03/2004
Posts: 2
Re: State of the River [Re: Cuchilo]
      #1878515 - 01/06/2008 19:57

There is a dredger working between Monkey Island and the M4 bridge which is less than three feet in places. However they are dumping shingle a mile down stream about a 100yards above Wndsor Marina on the Marina side creating a beach of shingle which restricts the width of the river by at least 10 yards and any possibilty of mooring the vicinity.

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Jaysay
new user


Reged: 09/02/2006
Posts: 6
Loc: England
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1878532 - 01/06/2008 20:14

Well said Peter! I agree on every single point. This is my third year on the Thames and it has deteriorated even in that time. I have been able to use my boat so little because of the stream that I am seriously considering going back to the canal system; and the floating encampments at Tesco Reading and above Shiplake have permanently taken over some of the best moorings. BW got tough with these people - why can't the EA do the same? What are we paying for?

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PMD
regular


Reged: 24/07/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Wiltshire
Re: State of the River [Re: old_man_of_the_river]
      #1878556 - 01/06/2008 20:34

Re old_man-of_the_river_ post
Having been in the construction industry all my life, I accept there is a place in todays society for Health & Safety. However because of its current mismangement by many authorities, Health & safety is constantly being used as a feeble excuse for organisations to absolve themselves of their normal duites. The EA is a classic case. You are deluding yourself if you think the management of the river today, is better than in the eighties/nineties.


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Cuchilo
regular


Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: Jaysay]
      #1878562 - 01/06/2008 20:38

Have to agree there , last year was rubbish and this year is going the same way . Its either raining or flooding so what has changed ? more rain or a new person saying how to get rid of the water ?

--------------------
Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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boatone
regular


Reged: 29/07/2001
Posts: 6846
Loc: Surrey uk
Re: State of the River [Re: Cuchilo]
      #1878569 - 01/06/2008 20:43

Rain = Water
Lots of Rain = Lots of Water
Lots of Water = Flooding

How do you propose to stop it raining?

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"Don't tell me why not, tell me how..."


ThamesBlog


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Cuchilo
regular


Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: boatone]
      #1878587 - 01/06/2008 20:54

That is what i was asking . Has it rained more in the last two years or have the EA changed the way they get rid of the water ? It's always rained but that didnt used to put the river in flood / red boards .

--------------------
Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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if_only
regular


Reged: 29/04/2007
Posts: 97
Loc: south east
Re: State of the River [Re: old_man_of_the_river]
      #1878600 - 01/06/2008 21:01

Why do new users who post contentious replies not fill in their biogs?

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Non illegitimi carborundum


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boatone
regular


Reged: 29/07/2001
Posts: 6846
Loc: Surrey uk
Re: State of the River [Re: if_only]
      #1878602 - 01/06/2008 21:02

Quote:

Why do new users who post contentious replies not fill in their biogs?




Is this a trick question ?

--------------------
"Don't tell me why not, tell me how..."


ThamesBlog


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if_only
regular


Reged: 29/04/2007
Posts: 97
Loc: south east
Re: State of the River [Re: boatone]
      #1878613 - 01/06/2008 21:09

No an honest question, I just find it strange that the more contentious forum members (not only on the Thames Forum) don't fill in the biog that helps everyone judge where they are coming from e.g. vested interest etc. isn't the whole point about open, honest input?

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Non illegitimi carborundum


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boatone
regular


Reged: 29/07/2001
Posts: 6846
Loc: Surrey uk
Re: State of the River [Re: if_only]
      #1878644 - 01/06/2008 21:27

My slightly facetious question was, shall we say, tongue in cheek?

I certainly get the impression that we have been joined by several new members who wish to keep their identities concealed from their employer?

I have no objection to them joining in, and adding to, debates and information relative to the Thames but I would personally NOT want the forum to become some sort of pseudo battleground for issues they need to resolve through their own HR procedures.

I also get the distinct feeling that we are long on emotion and short on facts which always makes for a poor analysis.

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"Don't tell me why not, tell me how..."


ThamesBlog


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if_only
regular


Reged: 29/04/2007
Posts: 97
Loc: south east
Re: State of the River [Re: boatone]
      #1878715 - 01/06/2008 22:11

That was my point if we know the background we can take a balanced view. Time for a and watch the football.

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Non illegitimi carborundum


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boatone
regular


Reged: 29/07/2001
Posts: 6846
Loc: Surrey uk
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1878744 - 01/06/2008 22:33

I'm afraid I take issue with quite a few of the things you have to say.

However, in particular.....
Quote:

They must be absolutely naive and operating in a vacuum, if they cannot establish the real facts based on what everyone is writing in magazines, journals and the press.




God help us if you consider all that emotional tripe "facts".

and.....
Quote:

Nowadays the EA is solely reliant on canal boats coming onto the river from the canal system.




Would you like to explain this most peculiar statement?

--------------------
"Don't tell me why not, tell me how..."


ThamesBlog


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PMD
regular


Reged: 24/07/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Wiltshire
Re: State of the River [Re: if_only]
      #1878751 - 01/06/2008 22:38

Re comments re details of contributors etc., I hardly think this is the issue (you can get my details as they are posted!!) The real issue is that irrespective of how many posts have been "posted" by so called "newbies", I argue my points from 25 years experience on the river, not on how many posts I have made to this forum. It is a shame that when a serious post is sent to thisd forum, the subject is hijacked by so called regular contributors who want to comment on everything except the actual content of the original post.

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PMD
regular


Reged: 24/07/2005
Posts: 21
Loc: Wiltshire
Re: State of the River [Re: boatone]
      #1878759 - 01/06/2008 22:44

As recently as today I was advised by a lock keeper,a person with more experince of the river than either you or I, that the EA would not exist solely with the income from cruisers. They are absolutely reliant on the "new" income derived from canal boats. If you do not agree to this "peculiar statement" as you call it, take issue with those with the knowledge, not with me!!!!

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boatone
regular


Reged: 29/07/2001
Posts: 6846
Loc: Surrey uk
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1878774 - 01/06/2008 22:53

According to EA figures, the total income from craft registrations is only about 15% of total budget. This includes visitors licences and Gold Licences.
As far as I understand it, income from Gold Licences is retained by the issuing authority and not apportioned. i.e BW keep Gold License income from BW registered NB's and the EA keep any income from Gold Licences issued to Thames registered vessels.

To suggest as your informant puts it that :
Quote:

They are absolutely reliant on the "new" income derived from canal boats.



is laughable. The figures and documents I refer to are available on the EA website if you care to look for them.

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"Don't tell me why not, tell me how..."


ThamesBlog


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Cuchilo
regular


Reged: 19/04/2003
Posts: 4797
Loc: London
Re: State of the River [Re: PMD]
      #1878775 - 01/06/2008 22:54

Quote:

hijacked by so called regular contributors who want to comment on everything except the actual content of the original post.




Liveaboards and the flow of the river are both topics i have commented on and both subjects are covered in the post you made of your opinion on the state of the river .

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Dont come running to me if you fall over and break your leg .


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byron
regular


Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 6831
Loc: UK -Berks
Re: State of the River [Re: if_only]
      #1878789 - 01/06/2008 23:04