SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 862
Loc: East Coast UK
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I have been told that as a rule of thumb, I should allow 20% of the purchase price, per annum, for the maintenance costs of my intended boat. Is this right? It seems a high amount. The boat I am looking at is a 20 year old Nauticat priced at £235,000. Does that mean it will cost me £47,000 a year in maintenance? If so, I need to look at a much cheaper boat!!!
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OliveOyl
regular
Reged: 15/08/2006
Posts: 1185
Loc: Belgium
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We were told 10%. Still a lot, bit looking forward to posts from those who have been there and done that.
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Stingo
regular
Reged: 17/10/2001
Posts: 6664
Loc: Durban
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I think you will find that that includes marina fees, insurance and so on i.e. all related costs to owning a boat and if you do most of the maintenance work yourself, you could possibly halve that amount.
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Cruising and Sailing Wiki By Cruisers
Anecdotes From Stingo
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 862
Loc: East Coast UK
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Thanks guys. Well, if it is £47,000 a year, then I will probably go for a 40 year old Snapdragon instead. I thought I would buy a boat for equal value to the house, but with the 20% maintenance and the present falling prices in the housing market I might just be able to afford a Mirror Dinghy!
Yeah, I too am looking forward to the posts of those who have been there done that. Have any of em written a book about the costs etc?
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petehb
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Reged: 26/12/2001
Posts: 371
Loc: Staffordshire
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I suppose if you average it out over the life of the boat to include sails, rigging and the inevitable upgrades to elctronics etc combined with annual running costs of shore storage, insurance and the like its probably not far off. A lot will depend on how much work you can and are prepared to do.
Amoret has its own account which SWMBO keeps track of, I prefere not to look but with in excess of £30K spent on refitting over the last 2 years with me doing much of the work its more than 10%
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RAG @ STICK
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mocruising
regular
Reged: 21/03/2004
Posts: 377
Loc: Corfu/Qatar
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Have just worked mine out for the past 5 years boat value 300k length 48' on deck purchased at 7 years old now 12. Added 6 new sails SS davits and Avon dingy plenty of maintenance on both engine and gen set. All inclusive of insurance marina fees, annual lifting and antifoul plus polishing plus plus plus , it works out at 6% pa.
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BobnLesley
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Reged: 01/12/2005
Posts: 835
Loc: Aground in Wensleydale for 200...
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That's an interesting though perhaps also a 'piece of string' sort of question; it did get me looking back at our own expenditure records for the last five years during which we've been on passage/cruising for 6 or 7 months, then winter lay-up ashore, covering a trip from Wales to Greece via the Western Isles of Scotland.
Bear in mind we're only small (27 foot and probably £11/12k in value) and definitely low-tech (If its not fitted it can't break) but our annual maintenance cost has been amazingly consistent (+/- 6%) at around £1200 every year.
This is calculated exclusisive of mooring/lay-up charges and annual insurance premium, but includes all fuel, oil and replacement parts, for the proper maintainence & repair of the vessel - I consider the boat to be in equal if not better order now than she was the day we set off.
There's not a lot of labour costs as I've done virtually all work myself.
As consistent as the overall expenditure has been the cost breakdown itself identifying one £500ish renewal expense each year (mainsail, electronics, cruising chute, fridge) and the rest in fuel, oil and bits & pieces.
Our experience seems to bear out OliveOyl's estimate of 10%.
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Whilst you can have anything you want in this life, you can't have everything that you want; so choose carefully.
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mandlmaunder
regular
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 672
Loc: US Virgin Islands, for the mo
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The cost of maintenance is directly in proportion to your skill level and the amount of time you can dedicate to your new pride and joy.
We live on our cat fulltime and do jobs as they arise, if you can earn more in the time it would take you to fix the problem, moral dilemma. The more you can fix the safer you become and the less your costs will be.
Given the age of the boat you plan on shelling your hard earned on expect things to break a lot.
Look around the world web for boats in your price range you willbe surprised at the cost of newer boats in the US and the Caribbean, there are boats around that for the pounds sterling you are prepared to part with will come with a lot less falling to bits(even new boats fall to bits) and a lot less ware and tear.
Our approx costs are 6-9% over 10 years.Some years much less others much more
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Youth is wasted on the young
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fiveflipflops
regular
Reged: 14/01/2004
Posts: 51
Loc: Currently Caribbean
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About 5% at the moment!!!!
Purchased price 61k. Bits add on purchase 8K = 69K Value of boat. 1991 37ft Westerly Typhoon. We looked for a boat that we could afford to sail, not what we could afford to buy. So far all going to plan.
In the last 6 years sailed UK-MED-Caribbean. We do most of the work overself. Replaced the old raymarine bits in the 4 yr selling them on ebay which put 400 pounds towards the newstuff.
The figures below are for all cost less mooring and yard. This year in the caribbean will spent 200 ish pounds on moorings. Yard 5 months 750 pounds.
1 YR = 2108 3%
2 YR = 3308 4.7%
3 YR = 3112 4.5%
4 YR = 4178 6.5%
5 YR= 3433 4.97%
6 YR = 3500? 5.07%
We have a budget of 4k per year. At the moment we have 4361 pounds over from the last six years sitting in the BLOODY HELL HOW MUCH, account. I am sure at some point this will be spent on a big item that needs replacing.
This does not take into account the drop in value of the boat each year.
David and Emma
s/y fiveflipflops
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 862
Loc: East Coast UK
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Thanks everyone so far. This is really really useful stuff.
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KellysEye
regular
Reged: 23/07/2006
Posts: 759
Loc: Bonaire
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It is a piece of string question and one isue is how much you intend to sail (i.e. wear and tear) and where you go. We use kit on our boat 24x7x365. It's said that an atlantic crossing puts the same wear on a boat that an average boat will get in 5 years doing summmer weekends and a few weeks holiday p.a. Also sailing in the sun degrades everything - paintwork, canvas, fenders etc
From that perspective I'd say maintenance is in the region of 10 to 15% with some large extras on top e.g we've had our engine rebuilt, replaced a crappy 3,000 rpm generator, fitted new wind instruments, fitted new autopilot, repainted the boat.
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mixmaster
regular
Reged: 19/02/2007
Posts: 159
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Also, percentage may not be the way to look at it. If 2 guys both heve a 45 foot yacht but one was bought new and top spec for £300k and another guy bought an older and say run down one for £80, then obviously the 80k guy is going to be spending a higher percentage and perphaps more even in absolute terms.
We're personally at some point in between. For example I'm going to have the bite the bullet at some point and replace the teak decks but I was aware of this pending expense at the time of purchase.
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roly_voya
regular
Reged: 05/02/2004
Posts: 1049
Loc: Pembrokeshire Wales
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There is a definate relationship between boat quality and maintainance. Cheaper lighter wt boats have minimal speck rigs and kit which is consiquently working near its limit and will fail sooner, but of course is cheaper to buy/replace. Buying a quality old boat can be a bargin but can mean all that very expensive heavy kit is near the end of its life. You need to get a feel about where in the life cycle it is, is most of the kit good for another 5 years of 10 years at your expected leavel of use. Is it actually good enough (dont expect lightweight stuff desinged for weekend sailing to do a circumnavigation). A quality old boat where everything is either missing ofr definatly shot can also be a bargin because you can get here for hull value and one you replace stuff you have a boat as good as new but it has to be the sort of boat where the hull and interior develope an attractive patterna with age, you will never see MFI in an anteques sale room!
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KellysEye
regular
Reged: 23/07/2006
Posts: 759
Loc: Bonaire
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>(dont expect lightweight stuff desinged for weekend sailing to do a circumnavigation).
That's precisely the nub of the problems we have.
Just about everything marine is designed for weekend sailors. Which is why we spend two days a week (sometimes more) fixing the broken overpriced rubbish sold by chandlers.
Or, put another way, you know what's going to break in short order if you are full time sailing by looking at the service packs on display in chandlers - for just about everything.
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TigaWave
regular
Reged: 17/12/2004
Posts: 1923
Loc: Buckland Monachorum
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It will vary quite a bit depending on how hard you push the boat and how many miles you sail. I'd put a figure of 5-6% but add £0.50 per nm. An ocean passage puts quite a bit of wear on steering, gooseneck, blocks, halyards sheets and sails. Living aboard also lets you keep on top of maintenance if you do it yourself.
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www.H4Marine.com
www.sailonline.org www.sailport.se
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CodStewart
regular
Reged: 11/01/2005
Posts: 823
Loc: Tashkent
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My boat cost 15k sterling and in the first year I put um, about 6k into it, which included new rigging and a tonne of new engine parts like raw water pump, starter, alternator.
I'm hoping that 'normal' years will be a lot less; am thinking I'll need money for spares only; hoping;praying.
I think that once you have a boat, that is when you start to prioritorise and realise that many things can be put on List D and other things can be done with the help of friends, which helps to keep costs down.
Before I moved to my boat, I had huge lists of things I thought I should do. But once on the boat, I was less paranoid and only focused on what it would take to keep the boat afloat.
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www.ihaveaboat.blogspot.com "Only The Educated Is Free"
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CodStewart
regular
Reged: 11/01/2005
Posts: 823
Loc: Tashkent
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...which is probably why I'm gonna sink one day.
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www.ihaveaboat.blogspot.com "Only The Educated Is Free"
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 862
Loc: East Coast UK
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OK. I'll add a salvage pump to my list - just in case we are moored nearby.
Seriously though, since I started doing calculations and did a spreadsheet on what income I needed, it has kinda made me feel that a smaller boat might be more sensible.
While I love the sense of hanging on the hook off a nice beach somewhere, the sense of security all snug in a marina berth also has an appeal sometimes. But the downside is cost. This appears to be a big factor.
Also, communications. I need Sat-Phone/Broadband to be able to work, and earn enough to be where I wanna be. Jeez! It's a Catch-22 situation again. Be just like paying the mortgage...
Naive I suppose, but all my life I've had visions of it being like the Eric Hiscock books I read as a youngster. The reality now seems very different. Much more commercialised. Gosh, have I really not noticed the changes taking place in the world in which I live?
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1549
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No, there are still people that live the Hiscock way. What you have to remember is that they were almost unique in their time and their lifestyle was not particularly far removed from the general lifestyle. The difference now is that mainstream lifestyle is so different now that it accentuates the gulf to the basics!
From my perspective, my rule of thumb is that, although my boat is almost at the centre of my universe for this stage in my life, it should never represent more than 10% of my net assets - therefore it can all go wrong and I can walk away without worrying too much. This of course means that I can never abandon the rest of my existence to indulge my sailing fantasies! It also means that I am there for my grandchildren, cruise the Dorset lanes in our Morgan and even mow the lawn from time to time!
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SirSnoozalot
regular
Reged: 25/05/2008
Posts: 862
Loc: East Coast UK
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Yes. The more I think of it, you make a very good point about lifestyle change. Introspection finds me guilty of confusing my own mind. There is me semi-grumbling about one thing, while working out how I can mount a small dishwasher in the bulkhead, while removing a seating unit in order to fit my settee from home in the saloon.
I don't have the volume of assets to account my boat as 10% of total however. It will more effectively represent everything I have, as I am selling everything to go for the lifestyle change, while leaving a bit for the kids. But I am happy with that.
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Abigail
regular
Reged: 06/10/2002
Posts: 645
Loc: South of France
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Fascinating thread. Some people have touched on the fitting out comparedto maintenance costs, and the original question seemed to be about maintenance costs once you're gone.
We spent £50K on a 1977 40' ketch and spent more than half that again on fit out over three years. (And some of that we wouldn't spend again; however many questions you ask, there will be mistakes!) We had very low labour costs as we did most of the work ourselves, except electrics where we needed a lot of work done and didn't feel too confident. Also we replaced the stadning rigging, a cost we knew we'd incur when we bought her. She is (according to new valuation survey for increased insurance) now worth £80K
But she is our home and we were happy to incur costs on living accommodation and comfort as well as radically improving/updating her capacity.
Since then (now only in 3rd season and as figures above show, costs creep up), we would agree with the pattern above - one major item often needs work plus maybe 4% in more mundane maintenance.
So, we agree with the Pardey dictum to 'go when you're seaworthy', because you'll never be 'ready', but also your ongoing maintenance bill will be less depending on how set-up you are when you leave.
Our costs also exclude mooring costs (very much a personal decision) and communications. As you plan to, we partly earn as we go depending on the comms, and that's a very significant feature of our overall budget. Here in Europe though, we have not bothered with sat phone as we have not found it pays its way in business terms. This could change both with location and technology/price improvements.
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Sarah & Pip
s/v Roaring Girl
www.sailblogs.com/member/roaringgirl
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1549
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Back to your original question about whether people have written about their experiences. The best back to basics book is Voyaging on a Small Income by Annie Hill, who still writes regularly in YM. The mag periodically publishes articles by individuals (usually couples) detailing their costs of cruising.
Big, complex boats are always going to cost more to keep going than more modest simpler ones. How you use it makes a difference. Pottering around the Med takes a lot out of electrics, windlasses, fridges etc. Long distance ocean passages take a lot out of sails, rigging, deck gear. So it goes on. The key thing to keep costs down is to minimise labour costs by doing as much as possible yourself.
Hope you find the right balance for you.
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