Pendlecats
regular
Reged: 29/01/2008
Posts: 458
Loc: North West England
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For our next boat, I am looking in a new direction for us, mainly for onboard living space.
Were used to the traditional style cruising yacht hull shape, solid all weather types, but really we don’t need one to take us safely round the southern oceans etc.. just marina to anchorage now and then with say 2/3 day sailing stints max.
We have an interest in say the Legend (36,38 or41) style or say a SO but never sailed in anything like this.
Thing is people say they get a bit uncomfortable if out in a bit of a swell, what do they mean – with the flatter bottom is it bumpy, banging or teeth crashing – what’s a bit of a swell? Force 4, 8?
What about holding on to things (there very wide and open), or are all these aimed at creating fear.
I mean, they cant be that bad surely, or no one would ever leave the marina in one. 
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I’m coming about - DUCK!
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KellysEye
regular
Reged: 23/07/2006
Posts: 736
Loc: Curacao
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If you mean the American built Hunter Legend (very swept back spreaders and no backstay) then they are very lightly built. The Americans call them 'lake boats', in the sense of what they are fit for.
Edited by KellysEye (24/06/2008 21:49)
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Pendlecats
regular
Reged: 29/01/2008
Posts: 458
Loc: North West England
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I must admit to hearing that, people have them around the UK (don't know if they leave the marina's in them), what about Sun Odessy's etc, I have heard similar comments about comfort at sea with them.
Would you fear for your life, or a bit like going down a cobble street in an old car?
Just trying to get an opinion on how much sacrifice the modern production boat is to the benefits of space, in our endeavours to find our future.
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I’m coming about - DUCK!
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roly_voya
regular
Reged: 05/02/2004
Posts: 1049
Loc: Pembrokeshire Wales
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Yes it is the flat bottem, yes it is both teeth rattling and potentially dangerous, boats have been abandonded not because they a sinking but because the motion was so sevear people where breaking limbs (see reports from the Fasnet). it doesnt need a F8 just a short steep chop, F4 and a couple of knots of tide the wrong way will make life horrenduse and breack crockery. On the other hand they are very fast and exciting, they are big dingies and sail like them.
One thing to watch is the plated load, if you are used to traditional heavyweights you are use to being able to chuck anything on board without worrying. When I looked at the load level on a Bavaria 34 I found it was less all up than the wt of my ground takle and that had to include fuel, stores and all the boat kit. You need to be strick about keeping it light and if you go over stability can be seriously jepodised. (From memory I think the bavaria had a max load about 1/2 ton above light ship wt)
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Bav34
regular
Reged: 07/08/2006
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Yes it is the flat bottem, yes it is both teeth rattling and potentially dangerous, boats have been abandonded not because they a sinking but because the motion was so sevear people where breaking limbs (see reports from the Fasnet). it doesnt need a F8 just a short steep chop, F4 and a couple of knots of tide the wrong way will make life horrenduse and breack crockery.
Good grief!
Thank God you have warned us.
To think that we actually survived 10 weeks of force 7's in Southern Brittany last year and were actually daring to set off for North Brittany next Tuesday for another 6 weeks.
Oh what a fool I was to even think of such a thing 
I suppose that the only comfort will be that the broken crockery won't be a problem as we won't be able to use it due to our shattered limbs 
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The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!
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tony_d
regular
Reged: 13/01/2005
Posts: 211
Loc: Sydney
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modern boats are uncomfortable because they are fast. 6 knots to windward into a 2m chop and our boat is banging so hard you can barely stand up below. In the sort of boats I started sailing in in the 70's 6 knots to windward was a dream. You would be lucky to manage 3 into any sort of sea. Slow a modern boat down to 3 knots and the motion is the same as the old boats - you just have a lot more room to moan about it in.
I have taken our Bav into the southern ocean during a round tasmania trip. Worst we saw was 55knots of wind and 4m seas but it stood up pretty well and much drier than I remember old boats being.
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TigaWave
regular
Reged: 17/12/2004
Posts: 1820
Loc: Buckland Monachorum
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Another can of worms here...all boats will be uncomfortable or dangerous in some types of sea, but comparing twisters, Rival 38's, Sweden 38, sigma 36, old half,3/4 tonners and a 1991 Bav. The Bav was the prefferred boat for rough weather. Fine entry heavy boats dig into steep waves take on board huge ammounts of water and pitch to very steep angles. Wider flatter bottomed boats will slam (but you can often shift the angle of attack to help)
My Bav hove to in 10m swell with lots of wind and breaking waves and was comfortable below, it also was happy with a following breaking sea for a couple of days of a similar size, lifting her bum as waves passed under. fine entry heavy yachts were getting cockpit filling seas from astern and were not happy, lots of extra loads as the boat was slow to react to the approaching waves.
With any boat you sail it to the conditions, and you treat them very differently. Pushing them hard while racing is very different from cruising and I'd agree with crockery smashing slamming on 3/4 tonners of 1980 going upwind in steep seas, where a Rival 38 would a softer ride.
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www.H4Marine.com
www.sailonline.org www.sailport.se
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FullCircle
regular
Reged: 19/11/2003
Posts: 8386
Loc: 30000ft
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Coo, I wouldnt have one of those Bavs if they only hold 1/2 tonne. Try my Jeanneau SUn Odyssey 35 instead. 2.1 tonnes on the plate.
There, thats better isnt it?
I have only had mine out in Force 3 or less, but I sail it upright, as it says in the instructions. Any more than 10 degrees of heel and its going slower. There seems to be some merit in the argument that I will be moored up, in the shower block and then the pub before the MAB hoves into view even. Iwill also be far more comfortable for the rest of my stay. I calculate that 85% of my cruising time is stood still either at anchor or tied to a pontoon, so that means I want to shorten the journey as much as poss, so I will put up with a bit of discomfort on passage to achieve this.
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Come on over to the East Coast Forum . You meet a nicer forumite there.
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alant
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 1905
Loc: UK - Solent region
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I have taken our Bav into the southern ocean during a round tasmania trip. Worst we saw was 55knots of wind and 4m seas but it stood up pretty well and much drier than I remember old boats being.
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To windward???
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1372
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Very muddled thinking here. My Bav 37 displaces 5.36 tonnes. Its "capacity" is 8 crew, which at 80kg a person is well over the 1/2 tonne you suggest! I don't have the full RCD certificate with me but like Fullcircle I recall a figure of around 2 tonnes.
Anyway, it is not weight per se that is important, but where it is placed and how it used. Big lumps of lead at the bottom of a boat serve little purpose except to require heavy construction to take the loads and reduce the volume of overall space that can be allocated to other uses.
As to load carrying capacity, this is a function of waterline plane area, not weight. Lighter displacement boats sink less than heavy displacement boats for a given weight. Suggest you go back over PBO back numbers for a series of articles on the subject by Andrew Simpson (who lives and cruises aboard a very modern boat of his own design).
The Fasnet event is not a good example to use - mainly because the boats that were most criticised were built to IOR rules and much of modern design thinking, particulalrly on stability has developed in response to those criticisms.
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