Pendlecats
regular
Reged: 29/01/2008
Posts: 513
Loc: North West England
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Personally I’d rather not get a mobo just to get there quick, although I enjoy sailing this move will probably result in less of it, mainly because it will also be home, and as such don’t expect to be able to just jump in and go anymore.
I see another thread taking shape here. 
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I’m coming about - DUCK!
No trees were harmed while making this post, however a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
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michael_w
regular
Reged: 08/10/2005
Posts: 2298
Loc: South London
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The cockpit on a modern boat often has vastly better ergonomics than her traditional sister. Angled seat backs are a boon as are coamings wide enough to sit on and steer at the same time.
Decent cockpit drains are the norm, rather than the exception on a modern boat. Sure, some boats are just marina cruisers, with vast expanses of slippery gel coat and no handholds.
Take a look at the mid 1980's boats. The worst excesses of the IOR Rule are behind us, strength of construction is still very important. Below decks, the boat is expected to sleep her crew at sea and in harbour. On deck, the layouts are just about perfect.
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"Procrastinate now! Don't put it off"
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Tranona
regular
Reged: 10/11/2007
Posts: 1548
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Without wishing to prolong the discussion I missed one point in my rather hasty reply.
You state "I can only speak about what I have seen". There is a saying in academic enquiry "A way of seeing is a way of not seeing". In this context, if you going looking for damaged boats - and where better to look than a boatyard where boats are repaired - you will see damaged boats. However, what you will not "see" is all the undamaged boats in the yard, nor all the other boats happily sailing.
We both mention the paucity of information on failures. I suspect that this is because there are so few! We have classification societies (Lloyds, ABS etc) that set design standards and approve designs and construction; we have statutory bodies such as the MAIB; we have organisations representing yachtsmen such as the RYA and the ORC; we have large charter companies owning and running these boats all over the world; we have an active and independent specialist press; we have insurance companies that pick up some of the bills for failures. None of these seeem to see a problem on the scale you suggest - or is it a conspiracy?
None of this of course stops you from holding an opinion, but please don't generalise from a specific.
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Pendlecats
regular
Reged: 29/01/2008
Posts: 513
Loc: North West England
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This has had some extremely helpful personal experienses, It was SWMBO that pointed out we do have to "Live" on (with) our choice, and an artical in YM on family freindly design of new boats.
This thread I think has gripped a few nettles, and shown we can and "in our case" should consider the newer designs.
Just need to tell SWMBO is right again,  as she always is
We have now got a sail lined up on a SO in August, and hope to go on a Bav in September just prior to crewing with an old stick in the mud trad sail to the Azores - Two weeks of brain washing and active debate, that'll help pass the time if winds are light.
Hope to thank some of you in person someday 
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I’m coming about - DUCK!
No trees were harmed while making this post, however a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
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Pendlecats
regular
Reged: 29/01/2008
Posts: 513
Loc: North West England
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Bloom in ek! 1024 views and 44 posts - I'm still watching!
The next post will be more mundane
I promise not to bring up anchors
I promise not to bring up ColReg's
I Promise ......
At least for now 
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I’m coming about - DUCK!
No trees were harmed while making this post, however a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced
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asteven221
regular
Reged: 06/07/2003
Posts: 201
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Quote:
>
In such conditions spade rudders and keel bolts can fail - and do fairly often.
There are many thousands of AWB's out there. Can you actually back that statement up up by informing us how many have suffered from their keels and/or rudders falling off? Other than one highly publicised Bavaria Match 35 failing, I have never heard of a catastrophic failure such as you describe. With thousands sold you would think we would have heard of hmmmm.... maybe....... say....... 250 sinkings if it's "fairly often". Surely someone at BenBavJen would have twigged that there is maybe, just maybe a design/build issue if that were the case.
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Kioni
regular
Reged: 28/02/2006
Posts: 850
Loc: Zummerzet
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You'd be surprised. It is a wonderful feeling to live on a boat, wake up and just decide to "go somewhere" if the weather is right. You will probably find, as we did, that you sail more, not less, and the time taken to make the trip becomes less important than just getting out and enjoying it. It's not a race, that's the whole point 
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Marsupial
regular
Reged: 05/07/2004
Posts: 615
Loc: South and East UK
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Ive sailed heavy boats and light boats old and new designs, long keels, deep keels, bilge keels and no keels, made of wood, steel, grp and concrete in all weathers. IMHO the if the old ones were so wonderful then the new ones would be that shape. But they're not, things have moved on and provided you buy a boat that manufacturer thinks is fit for your purpose then it will be. There are various measures you can use as a GUIDE, like STIX and category and they make sense as a starting point. My experience of crockery breaking conditions in any boat is pretty similar, in old designs perhaps a periscope would be appropriate as they tend to go through the sea rather than on it, but overall its the sea not the boat that breaks stuff, and most boats exist in the, at times, rather troubled 3 or 4 meters of the surface - not a comfortable place to be in anything when its rough IMHO that is!
The only microwave cooker I have seen ever "lost" was on a 70ft steel boat where the skipper was so convinced that his boat would somehow smooth out the 4 meter waves that he didnt tie it down, even when its lack of attachment was pointed out! With its loss came the usual comment "if you think this is bad think yourself lucky you're not in a new boat", I was thinking that on a new boat we would have been 100 miles further on perhaps out of this weather altogether and enjoying a hot something and not being drenched by every wave that tended to break over this very ponderous tin thing.
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DavenHelen
regular
Reged: 06/09/2005
Posts: 638
Loc: UK, Lancashire
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Quote:
The cockpit on a modern boat often has vastly better ergonomics than her traditional sister.
Except where you can't brace yourself from one side to the other because it is too wide. (A simple fix with a central footrest would do the trick).
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Dave
"There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't".
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Boat44
regular
Reged: 03/07/2008
Posts: 159
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Can I add my two pennies worth?
Nobody has mentioned money, or at least I have not seen mention of it.
Money and quality generally, but not always go hand in hand. so...
A lot of talk about Bavaris, Hunters, Catalinas etc. All cheap and bottom of the market in terms of build quality, but perfectly good "lake boats" as somebody put it. Personallly I would not want to get caught in a gale in one. And in my expereience they don't handle that well either. But for bobing around the "islands mon" great.
If you want a modern crusing ocean boat, Najad, Hallber Rassey, Malo etc. are up the top in terms of build quality, have bigger displacements so more volume and more comfortable in a swell.
Its horses for courses. If you just want to sit in marinas and do short hops when the weather is "guarnateed" to be fair, get a Bavaria, Jenneau etc. Will be more than adequate for the job. If you are interestd in longer hops cross oceans go you want somethig you don't have to worry about!
Or is you have deep pockets and want to sit in style in marina still get a Najad etc.
And before anybody askes I don't own any of the above. Never have, wouldn't mind though.
Like everything in boats its all a compromise.
But there is some excellant advise on the site, "try before you buy." You can charter anything these days from a 21 foot benetau to a 100 foot Swan. Worth spending a little money up front to make sure you are makeing a decision eyes wide open.
A
(Does that count as two pennies worth?)
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