VinceH
regular
Reged: 04/02/2007
Posts: 294
Loc: The Netherlands
|
|
Rambling post warning
I think it depends what your targets are. Which could be:
Learn as much as possible;
Get a bit of paper to say you learned something/attended for the duration;
Have a holiday.
From the sound of it you achieved the first, which is what I would be after. Probably not the best technique for the other two.
If it was the second, then I would be concerned about the inconsistency of how hard the others were pushed. A qualification is about demonstating competence, but must also be about consistent standards: All day skippers are equal, but some (who have been to Oban) are more equal.
I also have a BSAC instructor qualification. Here the emphasis is always on progression. Start with something easy and make it a little harder with each practice. Any passing instructor must demonstrate this during their exam. Also I think BSAC training is more formula based briefing - exercise - de-briefing (something I missed on the RYA dingy course I did 2 years ago.) Perhaps teaching diving is not the same as teaching sailing and we shouldn't compare the two, it would be interesting to have an inside view on how RYA instructors are taught for a comparison.
--------------------
Vince
Dutch chapter of the Bristol Channel Forum
|
bluedragon
regular
Reged: 07/04/2004
Posts: 954
Loc: Penarth / Milford Haven
|
|
The hardest (and least fun) week I ever had was "Day Skipper" way back in time. The instructor had no interest in teaching, just criticising. Fortunately I did know my stuff (and you obviously did also)...but there's no way it was a "course". CS and YM were in comparison actually easier I thought!! So don't be put off. You were probably unlucky. I don't know why you went to Oban specifically, but it is important to pick a school with a good reputation...we all used to hold Southern Sailing in high esteem in years gone by, and I did most of my later qualifications there. Any instructors that behaved like this would have been kicked out PDQ. Anyway...well done.
|
Alcyone
regular
Reged: 09/04/2008
Posts: 545
Loc: Bridgend, Wales, UK
|
|
Well the reason I chose Oban was I like the area, and thought we'd get out and do some sailing whatever the waether, which is what happened. We also thought it would be part holiday, which was certainly not the case.
I think we had a similar 'tutor' to you.
VinceH, I think you are right on all points. In particular, I wanted the course to teach me as much as possible, and to an extent I did improve as I said earlier. I'm not that bothered about the ticket, but the insurance wanted it, so that's sorted too.
I may have a problem going any further anyhow. I'm red/green colour blind. It has never affected me at sea, but I understand that there may be tests at higher levels with those coloured dots and bits of string, and I always fail those. Ho Hum.
It would be interesting to know how RYA tutors are trained. I was certainly surprised to have no syllabus, and not to even have the course content and assessment criteria even mentioned, let alone explained, but as I said earlier as well, this was my first experience of RYA training.
|
johnchampion
regular
Reged: 28/03/2005
Posts: 73
Loc: Bristol UK
|
|
Doesn't sound as though you had a very good time which is a shame and does not do much credit to whoever was the tutor, however there is a syllabus and it can be found in the RYA booklet "Sail Cruising and Yachtmaster Scheme - Syllabus and Logbook" RYA publication G15 04.
I was under the impression that Day Skipper does not have an exam as such but satisfactory completion means that you have been taught, and assimilated, I quote " pilotage, navigation, seamanship and boat handling up to a standard required to skipper a small cruising yacht safely by day in tidal waters with which the student is familiar".
As the emphasis seems to be on being taught rather than showing what you already know I don't think stressing people to the degree that seems to have happened can be helpful so well done to you both on getting through what unfortunately seems to have been an ordeal and not a particularly uplifting experience.
Incidentally I don't think there is actually a sight test for any of the RYA certificates but if you can't differentiate between red and green it may be prudent to have your own set of collision regs at night which would be along the lines of stay out of the way of anything! Mind you that's not a bad philosophy at any time.
|
zlod
regular
Reged: 13/03/2008
Posts: 46
Loc: Avon
|
|
I'm of pretty much the same opinion as johnchampion. I think Day Skipper is about being taught, covering the syllabus and then being sufficiently competent after that tuition to merit the certificate (and in my opinion, "sufficiently competent" isn't that high a level).
<< what follows is a bit rambling >>
From personal experience, I had found a vast degree of difference between sailing school instructors. The main problem I have had is that there seems to be a tendancy amongst them to always want to prove themselves right (one of them insisted that any green or red painted navigational mark was called a buoy: even one drilled into the sea bed - like Chichester Bar Beacon. I couldn't argue with him, but just had to pretend to defer to his enlightened knowledge).
I think too many of them can be too pre-emptive about what needs to be done ("ease the genoa sheet", "tack now"). Some of these decisions seem to me to be according to taste to an extent and I think it would often be a better learning experience for the student if the student could execute their suboptimal manouevre, see what is wrong with it and then do the thing that the instructor wanted in the first place (then you'd learn why one strategy was better than another). There are obviously some cases where you need to do exactly what the instructor says to avoid disaster.
I found the "shouting" thing difficult too. It's not productive and students don't want it or get anything from it. I've been shouted at a few times, but it's usually been in a high stress situation (force 8 etc.) when something needs to be done right. I can understand why the instructor is vexed, but at the end of the day, I'm a student on that boat because I positively want to learn something. Shouting isn't going to help: clearer explanation would. There's usually no lack of motivation on the student's behalf.
<< sorry if that was rambling >>
What I hope to do with sailing instruction from here on in is to find some good YM sailing instructor (with the right sort of attitude) in the Bristol area who can teach me from Coastal Skipper onwards in the local area. First things first: I need to get the work finished on my boat and then sail her round to Portishead.
If anyone has any suggestions about any good instructors in the area, then please PM me (or reply to this post).
|
Alcyone
regular
Reged: 09/04/2008
Posts: 545
Loc: Bridgend, Wales, UK
|
|
On your middle point, that was exactly what I did. We were heading upwind into a 7/8 and I needed to tack. I said I was going to tack to avoid an island and he said I'd never pass it. I did it anyway, as I tried to think what I would have done if he wasn't there. He was right, and then some, but I felt I learned more from doing it my way and getting it wrong. I just had to tack a couple more times.
I accepted the shouting, and it was pretty mild shouting, tbh, as I'd read that the tutor would try and stress you. But I do agree strongly with your first point, which was I expected more teaching. I think the people who were doing ther CC would agree even more strongly, as they were expected to have no prior knowledge at all, which was true.
Ultimately, it's an opinion thing. I see a trainer as a facilitator. Someone who, using whatever methods, and probably a combination of methods, teaches the student as much as possible. I think this tutor was maybe limited in the teaching methods he employed, and I'm not sure everyone got everything they could have from the course.
Just my uneducated opinion.
|
wotayottie
regular
Reged: 01/07/2007
Posts: 1892
|
|
Some of the tasks you were asked to do were Yachtmaster not Day Skipper. Your Instructor is not a good one if he allows the standard to creep up like this - though I must admit that it is difficult to pitch the courses exactly right and the RYA arent a great help in doing this. problem is that whilst some people respond to this macho instruction style, others are crushed by it
|
bluedragon
regular
Reged: 07/04/2004
Posts: 954
Loc: Penarth / Milford Haven
|
|
I spent a lot of time in and around around sailing schools at one point in time, and one thing I observed is that often the "new" instructors (or even those that didn't have their instructor ticket yet) were given Day Skipper / Comp Crew courses to run. The more experienced ones did CS and YM prep. This didn't necessarily mean a "poor" instructor...some newly qualified ones were very good, but if you've just passed a gruelling YM Instructor exam, there MIGHT be a tendency to apply those same criteria to a DS candidate?? Just a thought...
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
