Roj1
regular
Reged: 16/05/2006
Posts: 75
Loc: Falmouth. Currently France
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Is anyone aware of the definite law re. staying in France on a boat?
We have been told that 'an accumulation' of 183 days or more - calculated from the 1st of January each year - means that for French Govmnt. purposes that person is 'resident' in France and therefore subject to taxation 'of all income and taxable benefits worldwide.
We were always under the impression that the 180 days had to be consecutive and could be broken by spending a few days outside France, but now we are told that each day, or part day, is included in the total calculation.
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jimbaerselman
regular
Reged: 18/04/2006
Posts: 1734
Loc: Greece in Summer, Southampton ...
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Correct. And the onus of proving that you've been in France less than 183 days in the calendar year is going to lie on you . . .
But the authorities only rarely start investigating how long you've been over there . . . just live-aboards and property owners occasionally face some questsions . . .
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Jim Baerselman
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/ or Google 'jimb sail'
Compares the Cruising areas of Europe
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mikewilkes
regular
Reged: 28/07/2001
Posts: 1266
Loc: Boat - Gard, South of France. ...
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So look at paying tax to france than charlie brown!!!!
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Mike on Ceum Ur
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LadyJessie
regular
Reged: 21/11/2006
Posts: 1034
Loc: the Med
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This is not just valid for France; this is the standard 'tax residency' rule for all EU countries.
However, in reality; I have never heard of any cruising liveaboard with an EU flag that had ever had any problem with this rule in another EU country. The tax authorities are not interested in yotties, they are more focused on residents with properties. Now, if you are in a Spanish marina and you have clearly been there for years and never moved; you might have a problem. Otherwise: relax. That is not a guarantee that you will never be checked, but I think the odds are better that you will win the lottery before this happens. (and then they will be interested.....)
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anteak
regular
Reged: 28/01/2004
Posts: 1095
Loc: lowestoft
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I agree. Don't ask, don't tell.
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A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. EB
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Somerset
regular
Reged: 01/12/2007
Posts: 1721
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Before I sailed to France to gio down to the Med I spoke to RYA legal section and they told me that the people who have problems with this are the ones who have a house in France or Spain and are resident there but have a British flagged boat.Basically provided liveaboards keep a low profile and - if asked - are 'on passge' to another country you are ok - unless you meet the Douanier from hell! When I got there and was in France for nearly a year this advice held good.Was boarded after about 8 months in country by Douaniers - no probs - told them I was wintering and then off to Spain in the spring.They were happy with that,checked all my papers and left.
The ones who did have a problem were the Americans - from talking to some of them in Barcelona they were very likely to get pinged for some reason.
But the bottom line is that 183 days in any one year in any one country and you are in play.
Having said that loads of boats have been there for years continuously without problems.
Edited by Somerset (04/08/2008 22:42)
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Somerset
regular
Reged: 01/12/2007
Posts: 1721
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P.S. It was the same with cars in Spain apparently.When we were there the Spanish authorities had an occasional blitz on the Brit cars that had been there for more than 6 months so the local buzz was to make sure you kept your ferry tickets etc as proof of how long you had been there.
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lindsay
regular
Reged: 24/12/2001
Posts: 87
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What has been said so far is correct, HOWEVER, be aware that in France, if you being investigated, and cannot prove that you are paying income tax elsewhere, the 183 days residency allowed comes down to 4 months.
In practice, yotties -large or small- are rarely investigated. In the early nineties the authorities wanted to crack down on the wealthy yachts berthed in up market Riviera marinas. These boats simply left these ports for Italy. The immense loss in business that followed soon encouraged a change of heart and they then returned.
For example, it was pointed out to me recently that the annual bill for flowers for one such yacht is more than my boat is worth!
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roly_voya
regular
Reged: 05/02/2004
Posts: 1049
Loc: Pembrokeshire Wales
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Common question and tax law is somwhat complex to say the least. There s a principal in the UK that if you ask the tax office for advice they have to give you the best advice thay can, to the piont that is they get it wrong and it costs you they they have to give you the money back with interest!! I think it is probably the case accross europe that if you are up front with them they will be helpful. What they are looking for is the people who use properties abroad, offshore accounts etc to dodge paying taxes. I think there is suposed to be a principle as part of U tax harmonisation thy nobody would ever finish up paying tax on the same thing in two countries so presumably if you become tax resident in France you cease to pay tax in the UK. Since tax seams lower and benifits greater in France this seams to be a good thing.
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LadyJessie
regular
Reged: 21/11/2006
Posts: 1034
Loc: the Med
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Quote:
I think there is suposed to be a principle as part of U tax harmonisation thy nobody would ever finish up paying tax on the same thing in two countries
Correct. This is one of the things in the EU tax system that actually works very well. I can stick out my neck and guarantee that you will never pay tax twice on the same income within the EU. So it pays to 'shop around' and chose your residency where it is most beneficial for you. Sailing liveaboards are in the unique situation of being able to do that a lot easier than most other EU residents. Make the most of it!
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