Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Kim,
Firstly, so I don't get completely attacked for this. I love this forum, it has loads of friendly people, lots of great advice and brilliant for general boaty chatting...... BUT
It needs to be updated mate. You have a huge amount of support from your user community, loads of people register here all the time, surely it is about time we moved forward a bit more.
Can you not look into phpBB 2.0.6c? I know this is a lot of work on your part, but I really think it is worth doing.
Another forum I use updated recently, it is quicker and much easier to use, no more markups, just cut and paste URL's in to your post job done. To insert an image, click the button, point it to the url, job done. Click and select the smilies!
You can go back and edit posts very quickly and easily, there are no time limits on editing and the uploads on all other forums I have been on are far quicker with php. I have tested posting on here at busy and quiet times and it is slow in comparison.
I feel this would improve performance and be more user friendly, which may attract even more people to register
I know you work very hard on this and I don't want you to think I am putting your efforts down, I just feel it is worth investigating and seriously considering doing.
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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Didn't Kim respond to you on this topic before. Too many custom bits to make moving to another platform worthwhile
Personally, don't agree with unlimited time to edit. Weird things happen to threads when people rewrite posts after people have started responding, and the current time limit is more than sufficient to correct glaring errors.
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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I hear what you are saying and yes you are right, Kim did respond on this before.
I just can not believe it is that difficult to update, after working on other forums they have all managed it. Too many custom bits..... Gaaaad, if I thought like that in my industry the company I am working for would still be using Windows 3.1!!! There are always issues with updating, how long do you stay with an older version of software before you update? I just feel that php has a lot to offer and this forum being such a busy one would benefit from a far more advanced tool, regardless of upgrade hassles, once there, you would be away.
As far as the editing goes I have never come across a problem yet where people have made changes to a post with a lot of replies??? One post should have no effect on the reply, the only feature I know you will lose is, if you are the originator of the post and people reply you can not delete the original. I have been on forums where I have edited 2 week old posts and even deleted them with no issues at all.
Until you have used php and compared it is hard to describe the benefits.
Sorry if this post is a repetition of the last one, I just think we would all be better off with a more advanced system. Something that is much further down the forum development line than this....
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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fatipa
regular
Reged: 11/11/2001
Posts: 2548
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Wouldn't it be the case that once a statements been made and the poster given a short time to regret and delete/edit, it's bit dangerous to allow further editing over an extended period. I can just picture the Scottish contingent working as a well oiled team to build and feed highly contentsious (sp) and factually wrong threads purely to generate irate and horrified responses - then altering the original post to the thread to seem very reasonable leaving we English to look like pillocks.
Actually that sounds like quite good fun!!
Cheers, Brian.
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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I totally agree with all your points
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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I have to say, I think the forum is good, it could just be improved, it is only my opinion.
Do you have a comparison Brendan? If not, I am sure you are happy with the forum as is.
It is only a suggestion!
As far as the forum becoming bedlam, what an utter load of rubbish!!! I subscribe to loads of forums, non of which have become bedlam!!!
I feel you are homing in on this one area of being able to edit later, that is not the only area I was covering.....
It is easier to use, better display, faster.... The benefits are endless.
I suggest you get a comparison.....
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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What the eck are you drivelling on about. I say that I agree with you, and then get this lot back ! 
Actually, I have numerous comparisons. I run 4 forums of my own, and am a member of at least 6 more - and they all use a variety of platforms, and have many features and functions that vary for good to bad.
I mentioned edting, because you brought it up as a specific point, and had comments on how you thought it should work
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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BarryH
regular
Reged: 31/10/2001
Posts: 6122
Loc: In my own little world
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"I run 4 forums of my own, and am a member of at least 6 more - and they all use a variety of platforms,"
Spill the beans, what are they about, subject matter........I'll get me anorak!
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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I resurrected the old Mad Dogs forum on Compuserve for old members (we were keeping touch my email and having meets everyso often, so at one meet sat on grass with laptop and mobile phone, and set a new forum up <g>). Coupla work related ones.
Then also Pathfinder club forum, ribnet (read, don't post much) etc etc.
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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In reply to:
I totally agree with all your points
Man, it is a shame you can edit afterwards it really confuses matters, I wish there were tighter time limits on these things!!! I think this post is going to be bedlam, it is already out of control, my God its a disaster!!!!
Cool, so have you used forums that have phpBB 2.0.6? If so, you must see the benefits? I know there have been past speed issues with this forum that have been recitified, personally, being a newbie, I find it very slow to post even now, I have been on two excellent connections, I have reduced my display in the hope that would improve it. I get "page not found" errors on a regular basis and have to reload from my favourites.
As I say, the forum will work fine as is and I am sure many people will enjoy it, but I think it could be better.....
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Also, what the hell is a professional nipple tweaker?
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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BarryH
regular
Reged: 31/10/2001
Posts: 6122
Loc: In my own little world
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"Also, what the hell is a professional nipple tweaker?"
Same as a tit banger but working to closer tolerances
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kimhollamby
Administrator
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 3847
Loc: London (at work)
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We like modern, faster etc etc as much as the next person but the path for doing it is not entirely straightforward, not least because we are probably into a lot of post-migration support for everyone here (close on 10,000 registered users, many of them active) when we do so. As it is we spend a fair bit of time telling people how to use a web browser, let alone dealing with more specific issues (to the extent that I'm actually musing on the idea of holding 'how to use the forum' sessions somewhere, sometime).
As it is (and apologies to anyone waiting for a mail back) we're going backwards on support at the mo due to a series of other things that are burning hours.
There are quite a lot of custom bits and bobs we've added to the software and every other bulletin board we've checked would need some inc dev of some kind or other if we wanted to keep close to the same look and feel, to minimise user confusion. Plus the tech team here are supporting several other boards on identical platforms and for sanity's sake moving one would probably mean moving the lot. Right now there are bigger fish for us to cremate.
We are still looking at speed issues -- they are mostly coming from server load, related to database activity, and as we speak there is work going on it that area. It also related to traffic and we have seen a big increase in use, views and searching in past 12 months which might, or might not be helped by other platforms.
PHP is now our development environment of choice, but although we have moved several sites recently to a fully PHP environment ybw is more complicated and the way in which PHP will be adopted will be gradual rather than (for us) heart-stopping.
Two issues you raise -- HTML and editing -- have nothing to do with platform and everything to do with preference. We could allow HTML and we could allow longer periods for editing. I can tell you now that for security reasons we will never allow HTML but I could be persuaded to change the edit post rules if there is a feeling you would like a longer duration. Do remember though that post editing might dramatically change the context of subsequent posts.
We could also speed performance by disallowing images.
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ParaHandy
regular
Reged: 18/11/2001
Posts: 3637
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Commentary by TGWU shop steward at strike meeting held in a field outside Leyland-BMC Longbridge car plant some time in 1973:-
We like modern, faster etc etc as much as the next brother but the pay deal on offer is not entirely straightforward, not least because the productivity bonus may require post-work stress relief and we’re talking here about a lot of relief (close on 10,000 brothers, most knackered) when we do so. As it is we do enough time and motion studies and the bosses should know how to put a car together by now, let alone dealing with more specific issues (to the extent that the management is actually musing on the idea of holding 'how to fill the form in' sessions on Fridays thus avoiding making any crap cars).
As it is (and apologies to anyone at the back who can’t hear) this pay deal is going backwards on fringe benefits at the mo due to a series of other things that are burning holes in our pockets.
There are quite a lot of custom bits and bobs management’s added to the new Allegro Austin 1100 and every other brother in other car plants we've checked confirms the need for some incentive of some kind or other if we wanted to come close to the same pay and conditions, to minimise any aggro. Plus the tech team here are supporting several other cars on identical chassis and for christ’s sake if one is crap that probably means they’re all crap. Right now the gas taps on the oven are on ready to cremate us.
.... complete bolx, of course, isn't it?
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Thanks Kim.
I think maybe you need to look at the general support questions you are getting and see what updates and possible changes can be made to reduce them. I must admit Kim, as previously said, I use loads of forums and this was the most complicated to understand. The user profile screens took me a while to get my head round, inserting links and images lost me totally! Where as all other forums I seemed to instantly be at home with. Again, as you probably already know, PHP seemed so much more straight foward to use. I can understand what you are saying about not allowing html, but again, other forums allow it with no side effects, is there not a secure way that this can be done?
In terms of the editing later, that is not a big one, it is just another difference I noticed from other forums, it seems so far that the general feeling is to keep the time limits in. I had one recently where someone picked up on my terrible spelling, I could have gone back and changed it! It is not that important, I was just suprised I was locked out so quickly.
I work in a support environment, supporting thousands of users world wide and trend analysis can pay dividends on things like this. Making systems easier and more stable will reduce your work load considerably.
Updates can be very disruptive, we are in the process of moving to Active Directory, updating our messaging infrastructure and linking everything around the world together, believe me that is heart stopping stuff when every click you make could cost the business you work for millions due to loss of service! We update our systems though to supply better and more efficient service to the end client, if we worried about the impact of updating we would never advance.
Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about your forum, I love it and I know you work very hard and we get a free service, so I am happy with this. I just wanted to bring it up again that a possible update would improve things for both parties.
Cheers
Alex
http://www.mad-als.comEdited by Talon on 04/02/2004 12:04 (server time).
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paul_lomax
former admin
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 435
Loc: London, England
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Just to clarify a point, PHP is a programming language.. phpbb is named due to the fact it is written in that language. The fact it is in PHP rather than Perl (as our forum is) doesnt have anything to do with the features that these forums offer. However as Kim said, we do now do all our new development in PHP, and the performance of software written in PHP rather than Perl can often be better, and PHP is easier to write software with, and we have more people proficient in PHP than perl - hence it being our language of choice .
With regards to changing the YBW (and all the other IPC site's) forums its not a simple matter of selecting some new software. We would have to migrate all the user accounts, private messages, settings and posts - and given that no new forum software has the same database schema, it would be a fairly difficult task. And as Kim said, even if we managed that, we'd have to then write and bolt on all the customised features we wrote for this forum which doesnt exist in others.
The other alternative would be to 'port' this forum into PHP, but that would be a big job, and we'd still have to write any new features you've mentioned, and we'd be bug fixing it from now until christmas..
And theres always the adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Ironically, our sister title Web User were set up with this forum software about 6 months ago. Previously they were on some absolutely awful thing claiming to be a forum. They think their forum is the best thing since sliced bread! I think its partly personal preference and what you are used to..
Paul Lomax
Internet Technology Manager
IPC Country and Leisure Media
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Sorry, when I was saying PHP I meant phpBB.
Thanks for your responses, I will shut up now!
It was worth a try.
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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kimhollamby
Administrator
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 3847
Loc: London (at work)
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...it looks like Paul and I were being defensive, as often does when trying to be honest (ironically) but the feedback welcome, always discussed (often at very silly hours) and useful.
To summarise where we are at we think there's a bit more to be squeezed out of the existing pips and we'll focus on that for the time being, partly because we need to spend time on parts of the site (and other site builds) that make us the cash to keep running this place.
Incidentally the support queries are mostly really basic...we get a lot of lost password and lost username issues and problems because people register with the wrong mail address. Plus the perennial 'how do I post pics?' issues. So our list of to dos includes lost username link, and double enter email address requirement for registration, plus quite possibly some larger lost password links.
Am also aware the Help section needs an overhaul.
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BarryH
regular
Reged: 31/10/2001
Posts: 6122
Loc: In my own little world
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Don't want to sound ungrateful or put down your efforts, but the search facility is a bit ummm hit and miss. Not being into computery things how hard would it be to sort that out.
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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yep, If I was going to change one thing on forum, that would be top of my list.
I usually know what I'm looking for, so being able to search by user AND topic would be amazingly useful.
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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kimhollamby
Administrator
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 3847
Loc: London (at work)
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I would imagine we could do some development in that area...certainly there are so many posts now it would be helpful to be as precise as possible with the searches.
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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Thank you :)
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 38439
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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http://saltyt.antville.org/stories/185853/
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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petem
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 2856
Loc: ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
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Kim,
What's the reason for not archiving all the old crap? Surely this would improve performance. If people really complained then you could always make a read-only archive copy of the forum on a separate database.
Pete
Fairline Owners Club
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kimhollamby
Administrator
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 3847
Loc: London (at work)
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We've had a good look at the PHPbb issues as well as some other potential upgrades; compared to working our way through an increasing set of Elastoplast patches there is a possibility of planning a upgrade.
More news on this once we've settled on the best option and worked through the not inconsiderable data migration issues.
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