lc
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 844
Loc: Norfolk/Suffolk
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Join the RYA fight for red diesel and fill in the Red Diesel Consultation Questionnaire here
Broads & East Coast Boating
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sailorman
regular
Reged: 21/05/2003
Posts: 10652
Loc: East Coast
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done mine
come the revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 36768
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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Do they really mean an increase in diesel price by 95p per litre. I though it was an increase TO 95p.
Could open new dimension to petrol vs diesel. Would make marine petrol cheaper than diesel (I buy petrol at Berthon at 83p per litre)
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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Althorne
regular
Reged: 13/10/2003
Posts: 707
Loc: London
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Why should we have to join the RYA to fight the diesel rise. Why can't they include everyone who boats, big or small, rich or poor. Whenever we have had anything to do with RYA types our cockney accents have engendered snotty noses and disparaging looks. Being a millionare does not mean I have to have a big boat and I,m still very happy with my 27 foot, 27 year old boat and still want cheap diesel....so there
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 36768
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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1. join, fall in, get together -- become part of; become a member of a group or organization; "He joined the Communist Party as a young man"
2. join, bring together -- cause to become joined or linked
2 being used here. Fill in questionaire, not pay to become member <s>
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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lc
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 844
Loc: Norfolk/Suffolk
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"Why should we have to join the RYA to fight the diesel rise" ????
Where does it mention you have to join the RYA organisation just to fill in the questionnaire?
Broads & East Coast Boating
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sealine
regular
Reged: 14/05/2003
Posts: 47
Loc: solent,river hamble
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Done mine???
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 36768
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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You stated
"Join the RYA fight for red diesel"
misread?
There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."
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Lanason
regular
Reged: 23/07/2001
Posts: 4540
Loc: South Suffolk
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Done mine.
Adrian Kelisha I never snub anyone accidentally
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TheBoatman
regular
Reged: 12/11/2002
Posts: 2897
Loc: Kent
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Done mine but was a little disappointed?
As a yacht club member and someone who is responsible for 4 boats I feel cheated?
As far as the RYA are concerned I only use 600 ltrs / year when in fact I use closer to 2500.
I emailed the RYA Chief Exec and told him so!
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pheran
regular
Reged: 23/09/2002
Posts: 2615
Loc: Home Berkshire, boat in Hollan...
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Haven't filled mine in, can't wait for UK red diesel to go up to 95p/litre. Then I can adopt that same smug self-satisfied look peeps here give me when I tell them I keep my boat in Holland and have to pay 52p/litre for the proper white road stuff! 
A convert to steel boats and displacement cruising - the only way to go
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sailorman
regular
Reged: 21/05/2003
Posts: 10652
Loc: East Coast
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i suppose u go to Belgium to get yours?????????? smuggy & buy d/ free as well ?.
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PGD
regular
Reged: 09/07/2001
Posts: 1031
Loc: Thames - non tidal
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Done, any chance you guys can do mine in return 
cheers
peter
Complete the Consumer Survey http://www.mssa.org.uk Marine Service Standards Assistance
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LeytonC
regular
Reged: 16/09/2002
Posts: 1738
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Think they forgot 1 option, buying diesel from farmers who will still get cheap diesel
no matter what IMHO.
(I am ignoring colour of diesel here)
BTW i filled it in as well
Thanks
Leyton
(EXTAR Solutions - Software that works for you)
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Dave_Snelson
regular
Reged: 16/10/2001
Posts: 6160
Loc: Porthmadog / Jawhara Smir / Po...
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Done! Registered Glaslyn Marine (chandlers) as excellent.
Madoc Yacht Club
http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk
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MedDreamer
regular
Reged: 10/09/2002
Posts: 2995
Loc: York
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Why not a campaign to REDUCE the price of marine petrol to the same level then?
Surely any arguement supporting reduced rate diesel applies to petrol?
I am certainly no socialist but it does seem a little bit odd that those with bigger boats actually benefit the most from this concession. As I say I am no socialist but underneath it all the Chancellor is and I am sure the above point is not lost on him. - add to this the governments tactic of whenever possible using the "green" arguement to justify new taxation and one can only conclude that the recreational boater is right in the middle of the Treasurygunsight.
Good luck but you are flogging a dead horse IMHO.
I wonder whats motivated the RYA in this then? Having hung the MoBo community on Windermere out to dry have they decided the the Stinkies are important? or is it the case that they are responding to their Yottie members who don't like the idea of paying full price for their five gallons a year!!
Martyn
(Bit cynical this morning aren't I - sorry about that but I think the above represents the real world)
The Dream is Alive
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Does anyone know the history of why we have had diesel so cheap for so long?
I am very upset about the pending price rise, it will completely de-value my boat and will probably end my boating days to be honest!
The only thing that confuses my is why we have not been taxed in the first place?
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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gjgm
regular
Reged: 14/03/2002
Posts: 2829
Loc: hythe marina
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Well being on petrol, the questionnaire didnt seem to apply to me. I can fully understand why those presently benefiting from cheap fuel would like to keep it, and accept that if diesel goes up in price it will have a consequence on who can afford to use their boat. I suppose that may have ramifications on marinas, boat production etc etc, but in terms of EU wide fuel tax harmonisation,this cant be on strong ground. Quite what is the arguement that diesel leisure boaters in the UK should have tax reduced fuel? I can see the debate.. Uk farmers, yep good idea, UK marine industry, yes agreed, UK petrol leisure boaters, umm no fraid not-dont get it elsewhere in EU , Uk diesel leisure boaters, er... I dont mind two hoots if diesel leisure boaters get tax efficient fuel, but out of interest, what is the reason?
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jhr
regular
Reged: 26/11/2002
Posts: 9352
Loc: al shop for local people
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I've heard various explanations for this over the years, including the suggestion that it was a "thank you" to private yacht owners after Dunkirk. A nice story, but it sems unlikely, somehow.
I suspect that the truth is more prosaic - i.e. that in the old days, (by which I mean pre WW2) private yachtsmen would fill up their boats at the same pumps as commercial sailors - fishermen and the like, who were exempted from tax because, like farmers, it related to their livelihood - and the amount of tax foregone in consequence was so trivial that the government didn't bother about it. In those days, people also had bizarre things like paraffin-powered engines in boats (which I assume was also untaxed) but by and large, didn't have petrol engines and, if they did, brought it from a garage in cans, paid tax and cursed inwardly.
Fast forward to today (or recently, anyway) and we have a situation, which has grown over the years without ever being formalised, whereby lots of people put large quantities of tax free diesel in their boats and the existence of the EU means that this state of affairs needs to be categorised. Hence "special exemptions" for leisure boaters, requiring "regular review".
Logically, it doesn't make sense and I suspect that it will go one day (although I think I'm right in saying that the UK govt. has just successfully negotiated an extension to the exemption?). A pity; I don't have a strong axe to grind about this one way or the other, as my pride and joy runs on petrol, and I cough up with a weary smile on my face. However, I aspire to own a boat big enough to need diesels one day - which will undoubtedly mark the day on which the exemption will be rescinded.
Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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I really hope the price does not go up, believe me!!
But what is our defence? Is our argument simply that we like it cheaper? Everything is taxed in this day and age, how are we going to stop this happening?
Maybe we should be pleased that we have got away with it thus far.... 
Ah well, we will wait and see. Looks like my second choice of flying a helicopter may not be so far away if I have to sell the boat...
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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jhr
regular
Reged: 26/11/2002
Posts: 9352
Loc: al shop for local people
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It's a difficult one to argue against. As you say, it won't impress many people, other than fellow boaters, to be told that we like paying less for fuel and therefore that it should continue to be tax free.
I suspect that this is the reason why public debate and lobbying has mostly revolved round the damage that would be done to the economy by a sharp downturn in the boating industry - lots of people out of work, many of them in the South East etc. etc. Politicians have long memories (except when it suits them  ) and it may be that some of the old timers remember the fall out from increasing VAT on boats as a luxury item in the 70's.
But really, and trying to be dispassionate about it, there's no logic to tax free diesel for leisure boaters, so I guess we should enjoy it whilst we can, and hope that it continues to be a sensitive subject for politicians for some time to come.
You wouldn't enjoy helicopters, btw: fast, noisy things that pitch and jerk around, making you feel ill and emptying your wallet. On the other hand...............
Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
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syd
regular
Reged: 21/06/2001
Posts: 564
Loc: Tidal Thames
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Done mine and sent link to all in my club.
:-)
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PGD
regular
Reged: 09/07/2001
Posts: 1031
Loc: Thames - non tidal
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hi now they are on the database you can add votes for them
peter
Complete the Consumer Survey http://www.mssa.org.uk Marine Service Standards Assistance
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Englander
regular
Reged: 07/09/2001
Posts: 14966
Loc: Barcelona/Bollyolics
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Why not just make the diesel for boats and cars/trucks the same in UK as it is in the rest of europe? Diesel for farmers and fishing boats in Europe is tax free, why should liesure boats have tax free diesel? Has it stopped the boating industries in Holland or France?
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sailorman
regular
Reged: 21/05/2003
Posts: 10652
Loc: East Coast
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how many farmer boat owners have Bowsers?
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Englander
regular
Reged: 07/09/2001
Posts: 14966
Loc: Barcelona/Bollyolics
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Where?
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longjohnsilver
regular
Reged: 30/05/2001
Posts: 7140
Loc: Devon
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Bloody foreigner, keep your nose out of this domestic issue! Nowt to do with you!
PS Dollar still weakening, should make diesel even cheaper, shame about our overseas workers paid in greenbacks!
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Englander
regular
Reged: 07/09/2001
Posts: 14966
Loc: Barcelona/Bollyolics
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Just watch yer lip you! Or I\ll be asking for donations in five gallon containers when you visit! 80 euro cents a litre in Spain. But the dollar is taking a real bashing!!
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oldgit
regular
Reged: 06/11/2001
Posts: 7213
Loc: Medway
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I doubt that many here will have their boats up for sale due to harmonization of fuel duties.
I would guess that the annual fuel bill of most is not a large percentage of the following.
Insurance
Maintaince
Mooring fees
Gadgets bought
Depreciation
Interest on any loan payments
Income lost when out on boat when should have been at work etc.
If it aint broke fix it till it is.
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Talon
regular
Reged: 22/12/2003
Posts: 426
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Hmm, not sure about that one:
Insurance - £500
Maintaince - £1500
Mooring fees - £3700 (big one)
Gadgets bought - None
Depreciation - None I hope.....
Interest on any loan payments - None
Income lost when out on boat when should have been at work etc. - None
Fuel at new price at least £2000 per year! It is definitely going to hurt, I pay less the £1k per annum at the moment!
Is it not a case of all boat owners vote Labour out and that will be the end of it
Alex
http://www.mad-als.com
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MedDreamer
regular
Reged: 10/09/2002
Posts: 2995
Loc: York
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Don't want to be a pedantic accountant here but there is a funding cost to your boat. ie the amount your money would be earning if you had invested it rather than used it to purchase your boat.
I know, I know I need to get out more................................
Martyn
The Dream is Alive
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adarcy
regular
Reged: 31/08/2001
Posts: 844
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Axshually,
I think red diesel exemption was more the difficulty in fitting in a taxed area between subsidised fishermen and ships which could/can bunker anywhere in the world. They certainly will not fill up in a taxed area so it makes more sense to have the business here than export it. The same applies, but obviously to a lesser extent, with avgas for planes. If they're not transocean, they can choose where to refuel on their itinery.
Now that the greenies have arisen and probably a lot more diesel is used for leisure, tax looks more inviting to the taxers and b***er the consequences. The real sting in the tail is, of course, our outlandishly high road fuel duty. It is only 10 years ago when we used to wonder how the French were able to afford so much for their car fuel - now it's cheap especially diesel.
If it hits 90p/Lit it would be worth our while nipping over to France to fill up - nice trip good food + wine and a spit in the face of G Brown but I suspect the real consequence would be quite a few of the mobos will just move their boats over to France and save on mooring costs as well. Although some raggies and others would applaud, I don't think the tax rake will be that much and it is worth pointing out that it is only the poorer (marginal in economic speak) boaters or those with smaller boats that will pay it anyway.
Ain't New Socialism great!
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MedDreamer
regular
Reged: 10/09/2002
Posts: 2995
Loc: York
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I don't think that anyone would really cry out "Social Injustice" or point the finger at "new socialism" because a "poor" boatowner will carry an extra tax burden on his leisure activity.
In real terms "poor" cannot be used to describe anyone who has motorboating as a hobby. Look at the unfortunate Chinese workers being exploited for £1 a day - thats "poor" - they weren't out there gambling with their lives worrying about the price of diesel for recreational boaters.
I think we are loosing touch with reality if we feel too badly done to IMHO.
The Dream is Alive
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