Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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So some of you may recall a couple of posts about tenders and Studland beach. I have just received what would appear to be the National Trust's final word on the matter. In short, the answer seems to be "we can't be bothered talking to you any more, and anyway, it's up to us what we do".
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Blackfeather
regular
Reged: 21/12/2004
Posts: 901
Loc: Berks - home, boat - Poole
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Aren't they lovely.
The good thing about them is that they have no arrogance.
I wouldn't put money in their coffers. How do they end up with what appear to be almost statutory powers. Guardians of Britains heritage - I don't think so.
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hlb
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 16462
Loc: Any Pub Cornwall or Devon
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I'm getting slowly pissed off, with folk who used to be called Public Servants. Now acting as though they rule us!
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No one can force me to come here. I'm a volunteer!!.
You get yer forum burgee here. PM me.
Haydn
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rickp
regular
Reged: 10/11/2002
Posts: 4929
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Seeing as they're so co-operative, perhaps everyone should stop paying the fees to anchor in Newtown creek - seeing as they have no statutory right to collect fees (unless you're using their buoys)?
Rick
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jhr
regular
Reged: 26/11/2002
Posts: 8783
Loc: al shop for local people
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Don't know if you saw a series about the NT a while back, at least one episode of which was devoted to Studland and which ended with the then person responsible for the area leaving (for New Zealand, I think!). He was, let's say, rather lacking in interpersonal skills and it sounds as if things haven't improved much since he left................
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Itis apis spotanda bigon etoo.
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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A couple of choice quotes:
"Unfortunately I feel that it is not prudent of my time to reply to all your points raised."
"I am afraid the list of possible offences and occasions is too long to note as with up to a million visitors per year all sorts of incidents occur that have to be taken on a case by case basis."
"As I am sure you are aware from the media anti social behaviour comes in many guises nowadays."
"I feel that the need for access to land for people does not extend to vehicles/boats being invited on which would devalue natutral areas greatly."
So, they have unwritten rules that they can't be bothered to explain and which they enforce arbitrarily, they infer that I am guily of anti-social behavour, and don't believe I have any right to be there if I arrive from the sea. Nice. I have responded, and cc'd the Director General of the NT.
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Dave_Snelson
regular
Reged: 16/10/2001
Posts: 5643
Loc: Porthmadog / Jawhara Smir / Po...
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Haydn,
Civil Servants are.....neither civil, nor servile 
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Morocco and France Apartments
And while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your powers,
I can hear the flowers a-growin' in the rubble of the towers...
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Dave_Snelson
regular
Reged: 16/10/2001
Posts: 5643
Loc: Porthmadog / Jawhara Smir / Po...
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Well Wiggo, I thought of you only yesterday when I pulled up at a motorway services. As usual, I was pounced upon by some girl trying to flog me credit cards that were issued by MBNA but the affinity holder was....NT.
"Would you like to help the NT? - all you need to do is sign up for this card and every purchase you make"NO...At this point, I stated my dislike of the arrogant NT and in my best Basil Faulty, went off on one, and the poor girl didn't know where to put herself. Good for a laugh!
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Morocco and France Apartments
And while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your powers,
I can hear the flowers a-growin' in the rubble of the towers...
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mjf
regular
Reged: 18/06/2003
Posts: 1906
Loc: w.london - boat on solent
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Yes, mrs mjf keeps telling me that I should tell them to stuff their anchoring fee as its illegal sort of thing..........
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DAKA
regular
Reged: 07/01/2005
Posts: 2962
Loc: Nomadic
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If I may digress a little, I was on Studland for BH and was told NT had banned BBQs even in the BBQ area. You are only to use a BBQ after 1800 hrs in the BBQ area.
Not sure if this is a 'Law' but we didnt take any notice, the tender was on the beach and we made loads of smoke !
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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Dave, they aren't even civil servants. The organisation's a bloody charity. The public's donations pay these jobsworths to dictate how, where and when we can access land that was entrusted to them.
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Jimi
regular
Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 15605
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Actually the NT and its management has been one of my bugbears for a very long time. The NT is actually a registed charity with no democratic control or accountability.
The Governance Structure is or will be soon
A small Board of Trustees made up of about 12 members with the very best balance of skills and expertise. It will be responsible for the running of the charity and for making sure that the organisation works as well as possible to deliver its core purposes. The majority of the Board of Trustees will also be Council members.
A strong, representative Council which will appoint the trustees and make sure they discharge their responsibilities properly. As now, the Council will be made up of 52 members, 26 elected by the members of the National Trust and 26 appointed by organisations whose interests coincide in some way with those of the National Trust.
I feel such a huge organisation purporting to serve the public interest should have a more open and democratically accountable management structure.
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KevB
regular
Reged: 04/07/2001
Posts: 5081
Loc: London
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Maybe YBW could do a little article on the NT's beaches and their accessabilty from the water. Get a jobsworth from the NT to comment?
For everyone, for ever. Yeah right......
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Nirvana
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hlb
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 16462
Loc: Any Pub Cornwall or Devon
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I think you should get an ASBO just think of the damage your dinghy could cause if one of the naturist got his dick round yer prop, and I dread to think what might happen if some woman fell on yer anchor. 
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No one can force me to come here. I'm a volunteer!!.
You get yer forum burgee here. PM me.
Haydn
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AJW
regular
Reged: 16/04/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
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The first quote is just bad english and as such meaningless. Bad form from the guardians of english heritage!
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Joe_Cole
regular
Reged: 14/02/2002
Posts: 2348
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Well, I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say that I think that the NT does an excellent job. Just look at the size of its "estate" and ask yourselves why so many people have been prepared to hand over/bequeath their properties for the enjoyment of us all. As was said earlier "For everyone, for ever"; it's not just there to indulge a few boaters.
The rules are no different from the "No picnicing" rules which they understandably have in most of the inland sites. There are many beaches in the Poole area, and you've got boats to get there. Why not?
Exit, stage left, waiting to be flamed!
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deborahann
regular
Reged: 26/12/2003
Posts: 1182
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think NT got all that jargon from a book on how to reply to people writing to your company with complaints
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deborah
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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Ah, well, Joe. The same jobsworth actually went the extra mile, and pointed out that I wasn't welcome by boat on any of the Poole or Bournemouth beaches either. I'm sure they do an excellent job overall, but the Studland lot seem to be particularly zealous, shall we say. Have you read of some of their rather heavy handed tactics with the naturists? See here for a bit of the history. Even the Dorset Police have stopped supporting the NT...
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Joe_Cole
regular
Reged: 14/02/2002
Posts: 2348
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I haven't read about the nudist problems; it doesn't really interest me what a few so called naturists get up to. I just think that moaning about the NT all the time is a bit OTT. There's plenty of places to go to in a boat; boating doesn't end at Studland!
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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With all due respect, Joe, I'm not particularly interested in the naturists' problems per se either, but it seems that our dearly beloved NT has decided to take what has historically been a large area of outstanding beauty (which is why we go there, funnily enough) that has enjoyed unrestricted public access, and systematically tried to enforce its own form of political correctness.
No-one's "moaning about the NT all the time". I tried to get a straight answer out of them and have been given a string of confusing and conflicting information, and then told that they were no longer interested in discussing the matter.
Yes, there are plenty of other places to go in a boat, but if this attitude is allowed to take over, all we'll bloody well be able to do is look at them from below MLWS!
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Joe_Cole
regular
Reged: 14/02/2002
Posts: 2348
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The problem with Studland is that it is so popular. That's why they have to attempt to control things, otherwise the place becomes overrun. It may not be popular with some interest groups but it has to be done.
It's quite likely that the letter you've had was designed to say exactly what you have read into it. (i.e. "**ss off"; but they can't put it like that!) They don't agree with you, and they don't want to spend more time on the matter. Sorry, but in some ways I can understand their position.
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Stoaty
regular
Reged: 07/10/2004
Posts: 412
Loc: Medway
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Wiggo I am on your side on this one. Even though Studland is not in my area, it could be the thin end of the wedge.
Am I right in thinking that charities are obliged to give proper answers to questions under the freedom of information act?
Is there a lawyer in the house?
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Stoaty
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cliff
regular
Reged: 15/04/2004
Posts: 5146
Loc: various
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Why not organise a mass "invasion" of studland beach from the sea. Say 500 Mobos and yachts all anchored just off the beach then all go ashore in their tenders - can't arrest saw 1500~2000 people can they?
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 "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
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GC1
regular
Reged: 25/05/2005
Posts: 3341
Loc: k up your daughters
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Why do you need to go to a beach for a BBQ, you have a lovely boat with a nice dining area, if you had a cuddy perhaps so.
Are you saying that you lug all that kit around on your boat (beds, galley, heads) for for nothing then want to go out and stink out other members of the public by BBQing on the beach and peeing in the sea for your self gratification? I am an NT member and have to pay to clean up your mess and rubbish you no doubt leave. Why not have a communal BBQ area on your boat and let all and sundry use it and abuse it as and when they wish and see how you would feel, same principle really.
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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Not sure on that one. Anyway, she did offer to send me a copy of the byelaws, but wouldn't answer questions such as "What constitutes an offence?" or "What is the definition of a 'conveyance'?" ('Conveyances' are excluded from National Trust land, it seems).
The naturists have been fighting the NT since the early 80's, when they took over the land. The naturist area has been dramatically reduced in size, and at one stage the NT were using the local police to harass the naturists into submission. In the end, the Divisional Superintendent of Dorset Police said they "will no longer be used as 'National Trust Puppets' (his exact words!)"
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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Wiggo
regular
Reged: 10/09/2003
Posts: 2960
Loc: (State, Country, etc.)
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Errm, actually I didn't go to the beach at all, that was someone else, but as you replied to one of my posts, here we go...
We don't BBQ on board, on the grounds that (IMHO) it's criminally dangerous (have you seen how GRP burns?). To be honest, we hadn't thought of BBQing in the heads or beds either (not sure if you'd light a BBQ in the bog at home, would you?). We 'lug all that kit around' because we use it extensively (more than 100 days aboard last year).
We do BBQ on the beach, and either dispose of the remains in the bins provided, or bag it and take it back to the boat.
We don't 'pee in the sea' for our or anyone else's gratification, as we have a holding tank.
Perhaps you may like to think before posting, next time?
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The nicest thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise, and is not preceded by a period of worry and doubt.
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bob_tyler
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 1939
Loc: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK 50°09....
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Then the NT will probably find some way of charging an exorbitant anchoring fee and conning those who don't understand the rules.
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PLEASE VISIT: www.nmmc.co.uk
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duncan
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 8914
Loc: Home mid Kent - Boat @ Poole
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cliff that would be any normal sunny weekend in August then!
I haven't experienced any problems taking the dingy in to the Southern most beach yet, which is the least family sunbathing orientated one, but can understand the potential issue if all the boats normally anchored there decided to shift over to the more touristy beaches and plonk a tender in the middle.
re the comment about 'go somewhere else' in practice the only places to land families from small craft are either owned by the NT - Brownsea, Shell Bay and Studland or the main Poole / Bournemouth beaches. Compared to the Solent we have quiet a lot of good places really but the NT does have a very large proportion!
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my boat for sale
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Callisto
regular
Reged: 06/04/2005
Posts: 431
Loc: Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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Makes two of us Haydn. I feel exactly the same. A lot of these jumped up tin hitlers need sorting out big time and made to remember that we actually pay their wages.
JH 
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BrendanS
regular
Reged: 11/06/2002
Posts: 32642
Loc: Me: Wilts. Boat: Lymington
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But they are not Public Servants, and 'we' don't pay their wages. Actually I do cos I'm a member, but many people seem unaware they are independent of government, and are a charity, and don't have a duty to the general public
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See http://www.frappr.com/ybw to add yourself to the forum map
and as everyone else is doing it
www.plaintalkconsulting.co.uk
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Jimi
regular
Reged: 19/12/2001
Posts: 15605
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The problem is that we do not pay their wages. In 2004 their income was as follows
Legacies and gifts £63M
Membership subscriptions £84M
Capital Grants £9M
Property Income £40M
Enterprise Income £75M
Investment Income £21M
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hlb
regular
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 16462
Loc: Any Pub Cornwall or Devon
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It dont make any difference. There all in a position of authority, without any comercial restraint. I've seen it all the way up from the local British legion club comittee, to Tony Blure. With few exceptions, there all folk who failed, or gave up before they started, in the real world. So picked Politics, Charities, or even Scout Master, inorder to persue there chosen perversions. Usually the control of others, with little or no restraint, aided and abetted by there cronies in this new Beurocratic ecconomy based on control. Speed cameras, Trafic Wardens, thought police. None of it voted for, none of them accountable.
They are self procreating. First create more rules/ laws. Then employ more folks to enforce them with zellous behaviour. Loose money, invent more rules/laws to keep there heads above water and so it permitates the whole of society. Health and safety turned me into a jibbering wreck, how many others gave up on british industrie. Move into other areas and it's not long before all the parasites are there again, all hell bent on control.
Left to natural selection, if a road gets to busy, to many parked cars. Folk move to some place else. Same with the beach, you find a clear spot or eventualy stop going and find another place. Trouble is now, nearly every where is controled.
I gave up on Windermere years ago because of NT and there Stalinistic control, looks like there now fighting over the rest of the country with the other slothes.
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No one can force me to come here. I'm a volunteer!!.
You get yer forum burgee here. PM me.
Haydn
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