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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    46

    Default Re: Blimey ..... who\'s talking absolutes ????

    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't disagree .....

    All in all ... my posts allied with all the others - bar a few adverts of course - point in one direction ................... Not one anchor is answer - they all have merits, the bottom is important factor along with prevailing conditions.

    All I was doing was showing that my plough anchor even in poor conditions held along with the chain I used............

    [/ QUOTE ]

    SBC I do not agree that your plough has held in poor conditions, it is not a sensible statement. A brick of the same weight would have been just as effective, and clearly there is a large demand for anchors that are not bricks.

    I think you have not set your anchor, which is a tsk-tsk from any sail instructor. The fact that you tried and it wouldn't set is no excuse. Still, at least you have a twin-keeler and can just "park" on the bottom!

    I have been researching anchors over the last few days, and ended up here. I am afraid I see a large number of posts from people who clearly do not have the relevent experience to address the original poster's query in a meaningful manner.

    In fact the most useful piece of information on this thread is the chart from Craig Smith of Rocna. However I have already seen the Sail test itself, so it is not new to me. I consider it not definitive or conclusive, but certainly interesting, and feel the criticism of it is unfounded. Sail and West Marine have done a good job.

    Whenever anchors come up, there seems always a multitude of spanners clammouring to ensure their opinion of their anchor is made clear. "My CQR is the best". "My Bruce is the best". Etc.

    What I would like to see is someone with useful experience. I do not want to read "My CQR is the best". I want to read "I used a CQR and a Bruce and I decided the CQR was best". Since the thread starter was asking about specific anchor types, does anyone actually have a valid and SUPPORTABLE opinion on them?
    Mersea Mercy

  2. #62
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Anchors

    [ QUOTE ]
    What I would like to see is someone with useful experience.

    [/ QUOTE ] Firstly, a very warm [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] welcome to the forum [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If you look back towards the beginning of this thread you will see that I have shared some very useful experience about anchoring in weed. I hope this helps your research.

    Edit:- Edited the title back to something that relates to the subject, not the opinion of some poster somewhere back in the thread

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Anchors

    Thank you Lemain.

    Although your post(s) perhaps exemplify my comment - on a cursory re-look I see only mention of Bruce and Danforth?

    The thread starter waagener was asking for opinions on the Rocna versus Manson Supreme. One a copy of the other, is there any difference, is the more expensive one still worthwhile, etc. Or so I take it.

    Also the Bugal and Spade.

    Two pages later and not one person has addressed this (at least not with the benefit of experience).

    My opinion is that the "original" is likely to be better, and I am fairly confident in this opinion especially given the Sail test, but I cannot provide credible info myself to support this opinion as I have used neither - but I now share the same interest as waagener.
    Mersea Mercy

  4. #64
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Re: Anchors

    [ QUOTE ]
    Although your post(s) perhaps exemplify my comment - on a cursory re-look I see only mention of Bruce and Danforth?

    [/ QUOTE ] I am very careful not to contribute to thread drift - digression - until either the original question has been answered, the topic has been exhausted or the digression has already happened. If you read the thread a little more thoroughly, you will see that the discussion had widened beyond the OP's question and we were talking about the validity of Rocna's post (itself not directly related to the OP) and other anchoring techniques and anchors.

    That's both the beauty and frustration of forums, no? I don't suppose that you will find many threads that stick entirely to the OP and it would be pretty boring if they did, IMO.

    Anyway, welcome again. Have you been a poster here in the past, under a different identity, perhaps?

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Anchors

    I did have a login for YBW ages ago but forgot it and its password.

    I hear what you say about thread drift. Evidently this one would be quite short without it. However the fact remains the OP has not been addressed. Anyone?
    Mersea Mercy

  6. #66
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Re: Anchors

    [ QUOTE ]
    I did have a login for YBW ages ago but forgot it and its password.

    [/ QUOTE ] Just a friendly comment; if a newcomer is going to take issue with other people, especially those who have been around for a while and whose expertise (and limitations [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) are already well-known then it is helpful if the newcomer fills in a bit about themself - what sailing and boating experience they have, for a start. Comments from someone with twenty-five years experience of blue-water cruising are a different thing from comments coming from someone who is presently undertaking a Competent Crew or Day Skipper course! Unless you tell us, how are we to know?

  7. #67

    Default Re: Anchors, once again.

    Well, you certainly have gotten stirred up into a series of posts, one after the other (apparantly as more points slowly came to your mind), disagreeing with, castigating, etc me.

    However, given the following claim which you make with no personal knowledge of me whatsoever -

    "I propose another golden rule in anchor selection is "Beware of forum addicts who spend more time in front of a keyboard than sailing (or anchoring)". The number of posts under your username, when compared to your YBW registration date, is fascinating."

    I can only assume you commonly give advice or pass comment from a position of little knowledge and so your posts are not worth responding to.

    John
    <span style="color:blue">www.sailroom.co.uk</span>

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Anchors, once again.

    Isn't this all great stuff and I've enjoyed watching but now I have to make a few comments which may or may not go down well with some but that's my style and to be honest I quite enjoy it.

    My job is to spec anchoring and mooring gear. I do this for many differant people, boats, locations and so on. I sell anchors ropes and the chain. I have sitting in my shops the largest range on anchors in the Sth Hemisphere including Spade, Rocna , Supreme, Delta and many many more including the genuine items and some knock-offs of those items.

    I get feedback which I activly encourage and speak to the manufactuers of the products, the boat builders, the retailers and the actual users be they newbies or very well travelled. I also do lots and lots of in-house testing of all our products so I know what I'm selling is upto the job and won't put people or boats in unnessasary risk.

    Some comments:
    My answer to the orginal post: I have a 32ft yacht and many tonnes of anchors and goodies to choice from at basically no cost. I have 2 kids who I'm not often prone to wanting to kill and a wife who knows boats and how to seriously hurt me. Based on what I have learnt, heard and seen I fitted 2 anchors which I feel are the best I can get, both are 'new generation' (nasty phrase I think really). One is a 4.5kg alloy one and the other is a NZ made 10kg from a company who only makes one anchor. I anchor a lot and don't have the slightest problem leaving the boat alone on anchor for a couple of days. Obviously I have a well matched rode behind both of them.

    The alloy is probably a size down from what one poster here (Hi AP) would suggest but I am more than happy it will hold serious loads far above what I require in the bottom types around here. It is also my racing anchor. The other anchor is steel and used when I head off for a week or so cruising. Again I don't have the slightest doubt it will not let me down.

    I sell more Manson made anchors than anything else, mostly the Plows. Why? because that is what most ask for. We have seen a trend away from this developing quite quickly over the last year or 2.

    I don't quite agree with Alains 'all chain' is bad theory but otherwise think he is right more often than not on most points.

    I don't knock people who are enthusiastic about their product. Who doesn't get excited about things they think are great? Sure Craig has an interest but any enthusiasium is a good thing in my books. I also suspect more than one of Craigs comments have been interpreted poorly or the odd 'tounge in cheek' comment has not been picked up on well. Again I don't fully agree with everything he says but I would be very hard pushed to point out anything he has posted as complete c**p.

    You can have a 40ft boat with a 100lb anchor that will drag at the same time an identical boat with only a 30lb anchor of the same type will not. It is an anchoring system you want not just a small part of it called an anchor. Think system or you'll end up wasting money and possibly put yourself in a postion where you think you have a good set-up when if fact it is c**p. This is surprisingly common.

    Compairing anchoring performance between a 25ft and a 40ft can not be done. Generally boats under 25ft are over anchored and boats above 45ft under anchored. Techincally speaking you could anchor a 25fter on 4mm chain and a 10lb anchor but would you feel safe? no bloody way so you go up some sizes and hence get 'over anchored'. If you look at Working load limits and weights verses boat size/displacement your average 45fter is seriously under anchored compaired with smaller boats. If you want to compair anchor system peformance you need to be talking roughly the same sort of boats.

    I have yet to find a knock-off that performs as well as the orginal except from the wallet side of things.

    There is only one or 2 anchors I will not sell due to seriously dangerous performance. Talking orginals here and if talking knock-offs there is many.

    Don't knock just Manson for copying. Looked at Lewmar and most other 'big' names anyone? Lewmar Claws?? yeah right, chinese Bruce knock-off ****ters.

    Using oversized anchor systems is fine as long as your willing to sacrifice boat performance. Using seriously over sized gear can be very very dangerous.

    A well matched rope and chain combo rode is all you need in 95% of situations. All chain is for offshore cruisers, people who need a tad more anchoring experiance, have had poorly set-up rodes in the past which have given them a fright, people using too small an anchor or MOBO's who are driven by dickheads just to save us poor yachties from there lack of grey matter.

    People in the Nth hemisphere apper to usually use to short a length of chain. 1.5 times boat length absolutly minimum. A couple of metres is just plain silly.

    many more if you like but think I'll wonder off now and watch the flames [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Yes I've alway had very poor spelling, sorry folks.

  9. #69
    duncan's Avatar
    duncan is offline Registered User
    Location : Home mid Kent - Boat @ Poole
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    9,439

    Default Re: Anchors, once again.

    what a wonderfull response - shame in one sense that you felt it appropriate to have to make it but good in another that you have.

    wouldn't be me if I didn't pick up on something.........with the hope that it adds something to anyone looking in later.

    you reference to Alain's dislike of all chain rodes

    my interpretation is that he has no objection to them per se providing that 'sufficient' elasticity can be included in the rode which he considers a significant factor in a rodes overall performance in certain conditions. The introduction of an appropriate length of nylon or polyester in series or parallel will actually improve the performance of the rode in these conditions. logically series makes more sense when anchoringin deeper water to avoid the need to carry (relatively) huge additional weights in smaller craft.

    fair?

  10. #70
    gandy's Avatar
    gandy is offline Registered User
    Location : Aberdeenshire (quite far from the Solent)
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Anchors, once again.

    [ QUOTE ]
    ... If I understand it correctly, the other figure in grey, the "max pull", is largely unimportant since this is that figure recorded while the anchors were dragging, and who cares once it's dragging - too late yes? ...

    [/ QUOTE ] Is that correct? Surely if the anchor puts up resistence while dragging that's better than letting go altogether.

    Hoping to learn here, and not trying to challenge the more experienced.
    Tony S

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