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Thread: Price Outlook?

  1. #101
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    Mar 2002
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Mmm, I thought you'd support your local manufacturer. Obviously not.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Should I, regardless of whether they deserve to be supported or not?
    Just because they are my "neighbours"?
    See, when I browse this forum, it's because I hope to find some interesting and unbiased viewpoints from other peeps sharing my hobby, hence that's what I also try to give in return.
    That might be unusual, in a world where we get used to think that any opinion is always driven by more or less hidden personal interests, but - believe it or not - that's my approach. And it'll be never influenced by my evaluation of the builder we're talking about (which in this case is overall good, btw).

    [ QUOTE ]
    I think it's safe to say that if a company like Mitsubishi made it and a company like the Ferretti group bought an exclusive licence, then the thing works.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I can only quote from one of your previous posts: Wow, that's a sweeping generalisation.
    Would it have been safe to say that if a company like De Havilland made the Comet, then the thing works?...
    Examples are endless. Corporations do make big mistakes sometimes.

    I fully agree on the final part of your post, though.
    Not only when you say that you'd want a demo (I actually suggested that!), but also when you don't see why it shouldn't work on boats.
    See, I never said it doesn't, in fact. What I said is that the video gives no or irrelevant evidence about that.
    It's actually the video and its comments that I'd classify as awful (in reply to your question linking to it, btw), and I dare anyone to make objections.
    My only criticism addressed to the equipment itself was related to current requirements, and that was based on numbers.

    I can assure you that if and when I'll have the opportunity to try the equipment or (more likely) to hear unbiased opinions from reliable independent sources, I'll report that, if anyone will be interested.
    And that will be neither influenced by nationality nor brands.

  2. #102
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    Aug 2001
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    7,163

    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    Mike
    My last SD boat was Class A rated.

    My next once is and conforms to Lloyds - in fact it confroms the the highest classification standards in the world.

    My last planing boat of the same size was class B rated and I do not know of any planing boats that are class A. I am sure there must be some examples but they are not the norm.

    As a percentage D and SD boats have higher rating than planing boats.

    In a nutshell that is why I think that D and SD boats are on average better sea boats.
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    http://www.multihulls4us.com

  3. #103
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    2,780

    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    Hi Gludy
    there is some A rated planning boats around, especially coming from Italy
    Ferretti and most of Ferretti Group boats, Raffaelli, Carnevali (over 15 mtrs), but also the more custom builders like San Lorenzo etc all usually get an A or even many like the Gozzi (Aprea Mare or similar) get an A
    in Italy many customers give it a high importance
    to speak personally I have had a few customers falling in love with the luxurous Fairline 50 Phantom i have for sale only not to conclude and jump to a Class A rated Raffaelli 52 Maestrale
    as for the ARG Mitsubishi I can testify they are impressive and work as good as a normal ST
    a year ago I was ancored next to a Ferretti 731, Canados 80 and a Pershing 56
    a huge boat wash comes by moving quite a bit the Canados but making the Ferretti and the Pershing unmoveable, speaking to the captain he said it is impressive how they improve anchoring comfort etc

    I think if the system wasn't so good Ferretti would not had done the extension for esclusive contract for another 2 years which I think is valid till 2009 now, I also have to admit that in my experience with ST they also quiter

    I think both of these huge companies Ferretti and Mits have a big reputation and if they launch a product it should work

    D and SD boats far from being better seaboats IMO have a more comfortable adequate speed in high seas, which makes life much easier for the average boater in heavy weather

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    [ QUOTE ]
    I thought somebody might say that. The hull was described to me by an Elegance salesman as semi planing and certainly when you see them at speed, the hull does'nt seem to lift out of the water as much as a typical planing hull. Also I believe most Elegances have top speeds well below 30kts or need monster engines to get to 30kts which tends to suggest the hulls are designed more for slower speeds
    There are quite a few Elegances here in Majorca. They are not well known to UK buyers. What does the market think of them? Good or bad?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    having taken a few Italians on board of them and trialed a few. most Italians see them as cheap imitations for Falcon and Sanlorenzo or similar, with more spacious interior but not that superior ride
    I think most of them reach or are close to the 30 knot mark, and if I remeber correctly there hull is a variable deep v in most cases with about 30 deg forward section and flat 10 deg aft, I dont remeber that they have a keel in the middle also

    I would still call that hull a planning hull which can do comfortable cruising between 15 - 20 knots

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    Did you have a chance to try the ARG at displacement speed in F5+ sea?
    That's where I'd expect them to be not as effective as fin stabs, though that's just my guess, I must say.

    Re. D and SD boats "far from being better seaboats", do you mean that you'd rather be in northern atlantic in winter on the first than on the second of the boats below? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
    (LOA is actually similar, it's the image size which is different)




  6. #106
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    Hi Mapis
    different boats I admit
    I like the 1st one much, tough in this case you might be right better on the second for an Atlantic ocean trip, I dont think the Pershing also has that range, still dont think the bow is low for the Pershing 90 cause its pretty high for a boat of this type

    I dont think most Ferretti do need it in a Force 5 sea cause they can still plain, but I do think they work may be not as effective as fin stabilizers, it shows cause they are used on the Navetta series which is a SD boat

  7. #107
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    Mar 2002
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    [ QUOTE ]
    in this case you might be right better on the second for an Atlantic ocean trip

    [/ QUOTE ]Fair enuf.
    That's why, in a nutshell, D (particularly) and SD hulls (most of them), when compared to P hulls, actually are better seaboats.
    Of course we are generalizing a lot here, there are many P boats I'd be much more confortable and safe with, compared to some taiwanese towers, as someone else called them...
    But if any generalisation could be done re.seaworthyness, then I'd rank D hulls first, followed by SD and (not so distant actually) P hulls. Surely not the other way round.

    All that said, I can obviously understand why the P90 is a boat you like...! Who wouldn't?
    Though in the previous example, I'd always opt for the Aleutian, regardless of whether I should cross the ocean or go for a swim outside the marina.
    After all, if I must rush also when at sea, then I'd rather work and try to earn some money...
    ...and on the other hand, if I'm looking for some adrenalyn, nothing can beat a small lake boat capable of making rings around any Pershing!

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    the problem is this Mapis...

    that many planning boats or the A-category ones can handle quite a Force 5 with good speed and comfort
    boats like
    Maiora
    Canados
    Ferretti (persh, riva etc)
    Falcon
    San Lorenzo
    Couach Yachts
    some of the Brits
    Posillipo (riz, italcraft, diano)
    etc etc
    just to give some indication of popular GRP MY can handle a head sea Force 5 at about 20 knots some in better way then others but the comfort is there, not to mention that in general it goes better in the other directions
    so how many Yacht people really are ready to go out in a worse sea then that,
    I think it is pretty nill if you say it to me
    I think most Planning hulls with there planning speed suffer in a Force 5/6 + head sea
    but in reality how many of us would go in such a weather

  9. #109
    mikef's Avatar
    mikef is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    Yup sitting on a Cat A planing boat right now. All Ferrettis are plated Cat A. But IMHO, this RCD category business is a bit of a sham because the process is largely by self certification and, in any case, if your Cat A plated boat falls over in a F6, who are you going to sue anyway? Some tin pot sales co worth nothing

  10. #110
    petem's Avatar
    petem is offline Registered User
    Location : ation, Loc: ation, Loc: ation.
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    Default Re: Price Outlook?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Re. D and SD boats "far from being better seaboats", do you mean that you'd rather be in northern atlantic in winter on the first than on the second of the boats below? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
    (LOA is actually similar, it's the image size which is different)





    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, but I know which one would be the better bird puller!

    Pete

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