'Sound Signals'

[Piers]

Ouch - I stand corrected. Pilot vessel in Restricted Vis.

4 short blasts = morse for H = the white red flag the pilot boat wears.

Interesting how morse gets in, yet I believe it's been officially dissed...

[alant]

In the case of say a 50 to 60 foot MoBo in a narrow buoyed channel that he cannot go safely outside and a dinghy race organised across the channel where they are impeding the progress of the MoBo - in your opinion is the MoBo the stand on vessel?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out the Wightlink Ferry operating out of Lymington.

On Wednesday & Sunday, apart from the usual keel boats, there is an infestation of Optimists + Cadets being sailed by kids, in a very narrow channel.

The Ferry 'gives way' & this is "probably more than 50m" length!

[Gludy]

Alant
I asked you a direct question that you have refused to clearly answer!!
Instead I am left to infer from your answer an attitude that to me is the root cause of the problem.

To me that shows you are biased as the rules are very clear on this and you apparently just choosing to ignore Colregs.

To me there are MoBos and raggies that both breach Colregs - I am not trying to take sides.

You live in the world of your own where you can choose what Colregs you wish to follow. A world where a vessel that cannot move out of the channel and can have all sorts of problems stopping and losing steerage has to accept those rude enough to ignore colregs and impede the MoBos progress. Actually impede any boats that was limited to the channels progress including a large keeled raggie.

That attitude is the root cause of the problem here.

I would still like a direct answer to my question.

[alant]

Alant
I asked you a direct question that you have refused to clearly answer!!
Instead I am left to infer from your answer an attitude that to me is the root cause of the problem.

To me that shows you are biased as the rules are very clear on this and you apparently just choosing to ignore Colregs.

To me there are MoBos and raggies that both breach Colregs - I am not trying to take sides.

You live in the world of your own where you can choose what Colregs you wish to follow. A world where a vessel that cannot move out of the channel and can have all sorts of problems stopping and losing steerage has to accept those rude enough to ignore colregs and impede the MoBos progress. Actually impede any boats that was limited to the channels progress including a large keeled raggie.

That attitude is the root cause of the problem here.

I would still like a direct answer to my question.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pull your bloody horns in & ask again nicely! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
What on earth wound you up?? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

"a dinghy race organised across the channel where they are impeding the progress of the MoBo - in your opinion is the MoBo the stand on vessel?"

My answer was simply an example of where a commercial (large) MoBo, considers itself (with a professional crew/master) a 'give way' vessel, even when in a narrow channel!

Perhaps the essence of the problem, is not 'narrow channel', but what does a vessel 'restricted in its ability to manouvre' do, when on a collision course with one or more sailing dinghies (racing or otherwise).

"You live in the world of your own where you can choose what Colregs you wish to follow. A world where a vessel that cannot move out of the channel and can have all sorts of problems stopping and losing steerage has to accept those rude enough to ignore colregs and impede the MoBos progress."

I have no problem following the IRPCS rules & maybe you should refer to Rule 2 (a) for clarification in this matter!

[Observer]

You do seem to be getting a bit stressed about this question Paul.

The answer is there is no correct (or incorrect) answer. It may be ideal for race organisers to avoid setting race courses that cross marked channels (perhaps they do, I don't know). However, if it's not easily achievable (and I can see reasons it may not be) then power vessels just have to make the best of it. That may mean giving way occasionally, or frequently, or stopping, or even reversing course for a while. That may be a little or even more than a little inconvenient, but so what - each dinghy sailor is as entitled to the use of any given stretch of water as any power boat user.

[Gludy]

You again did not answer the direct question.

[Gludy]

Observer
If I was the one in the channel in a boat restricted the channel, I would have no problem in doing all I could not to disturb the race and although I would be the stand on vessel no problem in stopping and sitting back until they are finished. This is what I try to do and the result is normally a thank you from the organisers.

Some times the organisers have no other way thatn to use the channel eg the River Avon up to Bristol.

However in some circumstances it is simply not possible to do that and the give way vessel should understand that. The rules are clear on it.

[DAKA]

The Lymington Ferry is a very poor example to quote in this thread and just clouds the issue.

For anyone reading this from outside the lymington area there are two issues

1) the channel is substantially wider than my quoted 10-15 m narrow channel.

2) the lymington ferry is not a traditional twin screw boat

it does not have a bow or stern, it can be driven either way.

there is a drive at either end of the boat

the drive system is more like a paddle wheel on its side with variable props.

in effect the lyminton ferry can hold water in any conditions, cross wind, current no problem and move sidewards.

My boat is only 11 - 12 m long and has twin screws no bow thruster, in a narrow channel with either or both cross wind or current I can not hold stationary position.

It is for this reason why Sailing craft should not stand on.

this is clearly written in numerous Harbour guides including Chichester where a narrow channel includes all channels with Mooring trots, many of these channels are well over 30 m wide.

There is little wander with attitudes like this that sailing boats keep disappearing in action.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE

[fireball]

I thought you said you were only 11 or 12 m long - not high!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Gludy]

Daka
As you know the rules are very clear and my simple question was for me a test of attitude and the attitude was disappointing to say the least.

Rule 2 was pointed out to me - I know have the responsibility of avoiding a collision even if I am the stand on vessel and the other vessel is in breach of the rules. That does not exampt the other vessel and allow it to breach the rules.

In the BVI the info pack I was handed clearly stated Power gives way to sail except when sail is overtaking - maybe some people believe that is the only exemption - I have even been clearly told by a race organiser, commodore of the sailing club that power has to give way to sail even when sail is under power!!!! This is what these guys were teaching the kids.

There is lack of knowledge on both sides here and I have certainly seen very rude MoBos on the South Coast almost drowning sail boats as they pass.

I am about to be come a raggie and I think a cone will be the first thing I will buy for the boat! .... promise [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]