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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: latest if anyone interested


    “At the risk of being shot down in flames, I think our boating organisations should be congratulated.”

    Stewart, Methinks you protest too much!
    The RYA lost my subscription and support when I was told by the RYA Government spokesman that they received many letters from their sailing members arguing that they should not campaign to keep a reduced tax on marine fuel and that their committee decided not to campaign, after the loss of the derogation, for a reduced tax.
    I think therefore, that any 11th hour change, providing a loophole for SOME leisure boaters to reduce the total amount of tax paid on fuel, should not be credited to the RYA, indeed you said in your Red diesel reprieve? article that it was the BMF that was locked in talks with HMRC.
    I asked the editor why MBM would not be campaigning alongside PBO to limit the tax increase to the EU minimum and was told that the EDP stops us charging a different rate for the same fuel. PBO continued to campaign to the last and in spite of letters from some of their sailing members. When HMRC said we should keep red, it seemed to PBO that all that was required was to have a commercial rate and a 21 p rate.
    As I have said in a previous post, the existence of these convenient laws needed to be verified and tested to see if there could be a different interpretation. It seems that sister publications MBM and PBO managed to interpret the same rules differently and HRMC did not originally understand that a fixed flat rate split would be illegal. Without the RYA campaigning on price, the motor boater had no voice. The BMF and IWA had different agendas and were largely successful although the RCDO’s will not like a system that requires tax to be calculated on each fuel sale and livaboards could not be deprived of their domestic fuel anyway.
    I am sure that this is not the end of the story, as I cannot see why EU countries will accept that 40% of the red diesel in our tanks does not have the minimum duty paid on it. We have run out of time to get a sensible law instigated.
    I know that the industry is now in damage limitation mode (probably always has been) and wants to emphasis how much worse it could have been, but I would ask you to let the RYA do their own backslapping.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: perceptive

    -------------------
    I believe the result is a good compromise; no one trying to argue that 60/40 is a bad result for cruising craft .....
    -------------------

    Unfortunately it will be much more difficult for cruising motor boats to justify 40% of its fuel for domestic use as the audit trail will show that a boat refueling every 3 or 4 days cannot possibly be using 40% of fuel for heating.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: perceptive

    Of course not, but you are allowed to declare 60/40 so whats the problem?
    See the rainbow not the rain

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: perceptive


    Of course not, but you are allowed to declare 60/40 so whats the problem?

    problem is that if you know that 40% is not being used for heating, you are required to declare the correct propulsion use and pay the fuel duty rate. A flat fixed 60/40 rate would have been ok, but that is not what we have got.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: perceptive

    Thats not how I interpret it, 60/40 no questions.

    Am I wrong?
    See the rainbow not the rain

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: perceptive

    ........and its not just heating, there is battery charging, fridges, lights, gennie etc?
    See the rainbow not the rain

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: perceptive

    ......... oh, and the TV! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    See the rainbow not the rain

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    9,036

    Default Re: perceptive

    The one report by the RYA chap I read said it was thought by HMG to be a resonable max, claims above could not be justified. So you claim your split, upto that figure that you think you can justifiy if asked. He also said boats based in marinas would find it hard to claim rebate, presummabley as they are plugged into the mains. So light, heat, battery charging, fridge, cooking and TV comes down a wire.

    No genny, no heater, so one thing I do not have worry about.

    Brian
    Kddpowercentre VASR charge

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: perceptive


    Thats not how I interpret it, 60/40 no questions.

    The HMRC will say they think 60/40 will be most people's usage but you must declare your correct usage. Stewart interprets this as nobody is going to check if you declare at the 60/40 rate.... not quite the same thing. I am of a generation that believes that tax laws are written to avoid ambiguities and whilst i am as keen as the next man to take advantage of a loophole, I know that with a audit trail, I am a mouse click away from a prosecution if I declare 40% of my fuel was used for heating in 3 days.
    Stewart said MBM were still considering how they will declare their fuel usage on 'Blue Finn' (MBM's boat) so maybe he is not quite as confident as he sounds.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    4,476

    Default Re: perceptive

    Bit of a conundrum then?
    Me, I'm going 60/40, remember no receipts have to be kept and whilst I'm not trying to find a loop hole or diddle the tax man, the way I see it is, as I have previously said, declare 60/40 and no questions will be asked.
    I am sure I am not alone in this assumption and would appreciate more information or opinions.
    See the rainbow not the rain

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